|FROM ||David Sugar
|SUBJECT ||Re: [hangout] Re: Statement about the NYLXS & New Yorkers For Fair Use situation
|From owner-hangout-desteny-at-mrbrklyn.com Wed Feb 26 08:13:10 2003
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Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:55:28 -0500
From: David Sugar
To: Kevin Mark , Brett Wynkoop
Subject: Re: [hangout] Re: Statement about the NYLXS & New Yorkers For Fair Use situation
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:14:52 -0500
Cc: hangout-at-nylxs.com, Marco Soffier ,
paulr-at-nylxs.com, Vin ,
Michael Richardson , oeg-at-nylxs.com,
nylxsdoer-at-nyc.rr.com, Richard M Weinberg ,
Billy , cycmn-at-nyct.net, ercole-at-speakeasy.org,
Forest-at-mcdj.org, computek-at-swflug.org, thelwell-at-mindspring.com
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Reply-To: David Sugar
List: New Yorkers Linux Scene
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Sometimes there are places and things one cannot make compromises with. Are
you suggesting wwII was a big mistake and that we should have found some
common ground with Hitler and all just "gotten along together"? No, I am not
saying Saddam is a Hitler (at best he's a Stalin wannabe, anyway), but simply
that "common goals" is sometimes just not possible. Or do you suggest we
become concerned with not hurting the feelings and self esteem of every
brutal thug on the planet today?
Which brings us the point I have largely kept quiet on. Since I was not a
party to the domain dispute or to the formation and/or participation in NY
fair use I largely had no opinion on the question. I do recall a few years
ago being in a bar with Jay, I thinkJim Gleeson for it was after a nylug
meeting back then, Wendy Seltzer, and I forget who else, discussing the need
for political action, but do not actually recall either Ruben or Bret being
present, but no, I am not going to make a "third" claim to founding ny fair
use either :). However, I have no idea what happened from that point forward
to where we are today with NY fair use, who did what, etc, and I would not
offer any opinion on that subect.
On the other part of the dispute, I will offer a viewpoint. While it is
certainly true that Ruben can sometimes amplify and magnify an issue far
beyond what one expects, and can sometimes be a real pain, he always from
what I have seen starts from a very valid and very real and true issue.
While I have certainly heard Ruben's story about the domain, and find that
perhaps it may be amplified beyond proportion, I believe there is a valid
basis at the core of his complaint, and certainly the other story I have
heard is completely preposterous and unbelievable.
Essentially, I am expected to believe that this fairy tale of this fine
"mensch", Brett, out of the sole goodness of his heart, holding the domain
for Ruben out of the simple fear that Ruben will throw it away, and for, what
is it now, over a year is it?, even in the face of constant harrassment, and
constant "Ruben", and the complaints of others, showing more virtue and
patience then one would even expect even of Mother Thersa, all for the
"common good" of nylxs.
No. This is utterly perposterous. The short answer is simply that if he
wanted to hold it simply for the "good of nylxs", he would have found a way
to get rid of it months ago. Anyone would have! The aggrevation alone would
not have been worth it. If that was his actual reason for holding it, there
are people even he could have deamed responsible that he could have turned it
over to other than Ruben if this was, as claimed, his sole and pure
motivation. No, this is unbelievable. Ludicrious.
I do not believe the issues of ny fair use and the domain should be connected
or swapped. I believe they are seperate issues that require seperate
resolution. On the question of nylxs.org, clearly, this should be
relinquished to somebody in nylxs. Brett, let their domain go.
On Wednesday 26 February 2003 04:48 am, Kevin Mark wrote:
> BW had this to say about "Statement about the NYLXS & New Yorkers For
> I have said from the start that the so
> > called problems that he has referred to were just a smoke screen for what
> > ever private quarrel he has decided he has for me.
> I am aware of this. Not at an intimate level in they way you and ruben
> ... they would have to assume that there was never a very close friendship
> and even
> > working partnership on various projects going back many years.
> I am aware of this. Which is why the aforementioned argument makes sense.
> New Yorkers For Fair Use are among Ruben's most ardent supporters. We
> don't want him to keep attacking us.
> I am aware of this very, very much. Unfortunatley Ruben like George Bush
> likes to make grand rhetoric gestures in a forceful way that do not allow
> anyone to save face and to which he will not allow himself to a
> place to retreat.
> Look at GB's attacks at Saddam. Saddam like GW does not want to lose face
> or the respect of this people like GW. GW's position on Iraq does not
> allow Saddam to make amends so he is fored to make a statement like 'i
> will die in iraq'. After watching 'DR PHIL', he said that it is important
> to allow people a 'safe space' to retreat to after an arguemnt. If you do
> not, disaster is the only result. If only we could put aside our
> differences and focus on our common goal. You might take the example of Jim
> Gleason who is very 'socially adept'. He looks for all his people in NYLUG
> to feel like they are part of the team and does not try to exclude people
> or their input.
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc