MESSAGE
| DATE | 2003-07-21 |
| FROM | Sunny Dubey
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [hangout] School Technology
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On Monday 21 July 2003 08:40 pm, Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS wrote:
> Perl allows, as most people who took my classes know, a broad background
> in general programming skills, and computer science that is not possible
> with many other programming platforms. One of those platforms is PHP.
I think it is safe for me to say that PHP/MySQL is the most popular
language/database combination on the internet. Numerous books and articles
have been written about it. Even Microsoft writes rather _lengthy_ articles
about how one can "migrate" from PHP/MySQL to an ASP/SQLServer solution.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/iis/deploy/depovg/Miglamp.asp
> We have already developed a very solid ciriculum with Perl to teach
> programming basics.
I think there is a fundamental flaw with NYLXS. The fact that NYLXS members
will advocate or use some technology, only because they are experienced of it
even if they are aware of other perfectly sound solutions. I've noticed this
particularly with how NYLXS often uses SuSE, when there are other 100% free
distributions. (If we are to advocate total use of nothing but free
software, SuSE usage is an amusing oxymoron.)
If we are to advance free software, we must advocate whatever we have.
Exclusion of particular popular, and sound technologies because of our
ignorance on them is not the path. Instead of rejecting all other languages
just so we can favor perl, we should go out and stake new grounds by learning
what we can of other languages and platforms.
Simply bashing a particular technology (PHP) is not the way to go. Especially
when someone else who we are to service has requested it.
> I think we will have no trouble making the case for a move off the PHP
> request, which was largely based on the precieved successes at the Beakman
> School. However, IMO, the Beakman School is not a success, or a successful
> model. I base this opinion on a real study of the outcomes at the Beakman
> School. The Beakman School exihibits all the following failures:
Of the 7 reasons, 6 had nothing to do with PHP at all. The first six could be
applied to just about any course teaching any material. (non computer
courses as well.)
> 7) The Beakman program failed to extend children into other areas of
> programming, largely due to their over exposure of PHP and Web design,
> which handicaps the kids in the fast changing technology world.
PHP is very much a fast changing language. In fact this is probably one of
the biggest reasons not to teach PHP. For every major release of PHP, there
is something that is always changing and therefore PHP fans have to be quick
to adopt whatever the new changes are.
Additionally I think PHP is a great language because it isn't complex as C/C++
but at the same time it allows for an understand of basic programming
structure which is similar to C/C++.
> frankly, Perl is better than PHP for that as well
Such comments really do tarnish the NYLXS name, and show a general sense of
ignorance on the topic at hand.
Lastly, I guess I'd like to share my own views of why perl isn't a good thing:
- First perl users are so obsessed about their own language, that in their
bizarre disire to do everything in perl, they often keep reinventing the
wheel. This is easily noticed when browsing CPAN and noticing that plenty of
libraries that need not exist because perfectly sound libraries that do the
same thing exist else where.
- Secondly, in our attempts to make perl the panacea of programming problems,
I've noticed quite often perl fans are often ignorant of whatever else
exists, even if the non-perl solution is clearly the Superior choice. (I say
this because I am a regular chatter of the #bash IRC channel, and I've
noticed that people use the perl interpretor to do what 10 lines of shell
would have done.)
- Lastly, as we all know, perl becomes unreadable after 150 lines or so.
While this is true for all programming languages, this is particularly true
for perl and its rather "powerful, but obscure" syntax.
The above are solely my opinions. Do not get me wrong. I think perl is a
very powerful language and I do believe that any and all unix operating
systems should ship with perl in a base install. However I do believe that
putting other languages down so we can advocate perl is very harmful.
Sunny Dubey
____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
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