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DATE 2004-03-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2004-03-24
FROM From: "Inker, Evan"
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Dispelling the myths of Gentoo Linux, an honest review

Dispelling the myths of Gentoo Linux, an honest review
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/8009/index.html
Posted by dave on Mar 22, 2004 11:07 AM
By Dave Whitinger

This long-term Red Hat Linux user has given an honest look at Gentoo, and
has concluded that the stereotypes surrounding this distribution are false.
After all these years, I have finally found my new distribution: Gentoo
Linux.



I started my Linux journey in 1995 with a pile of "A" and "N" Slackware
diskettes. It was a real thrill to run X-Windows on my 386 machine with 16MG
of RAM. In 1997, when I was hired to work for Red Hat Software, Inc, I was
brought kicking and screaming into the world of Red Hat. As the old adage
goes, I stuck with what works. The nice thing about Red Hat is that it hides
the complexity of Linux behind binary RPMS, but the downside to Red Hat is
that is hides the complexity of Linux behind binary RPMS. Nevertheless it
works, and I, like millions of others, have continued to use Red Hat through
2004.

When Red Hat dropped Red Hat Linux in favor of Fedora, I switched to Fedora
and continued to be happy with the software that came out of Raleigh.

A few weeks ago, however, I purchased an Opteron machine with the intention
of playing with Linux on it, seeing what all the 64-bit fuss is about, and
perhaps making it my new server. I sampled several AMD64-based
distributions, including Gentoo 2004.0, and was delighted with what I found
in this powerful distribution.

I had purchased an ASUS SK8N motherboard, an AMD Opteron 142 processor, 2
gigabytes of DDR333 memory, and a 150G Serial ATA hard drive. The ASUS SK8N
motherboard includes SATA onboard, and I couldn't resist the opportunity to
test this new and improved hard disk standard. I purchased the case and
cheap-o video card locally, at the only computer store I know of in
small-town Kerrville, Texas.


The installation
Having previously downloaded and burned the Gentoo 2004.0 LiveCD for AMD64,
I was ready for action. I inserted the CD into the drive and booted up the
computer. Now, the installation of Gentoo 2004.0 is wildly different from
other installation programs. It reminds me of Slackware from 1995, but a
little less friendly, and no pile of diskettes. :) The installation is
insanely different, and I absolutely loved it. This installation method is a
breath of fresh air to me, and I think that those of you experienced
Linuxers would also find it quite attractive. Let me describe the process
for you:

When the CD boots up, you are dumped straight at a root prompt, with no
clues as to what to do next. Thankfully, the Gentoo folks have written an
excellent handbook that holds your hand and walks you through the whole
process. The first thing to do is boot up your CD, and once at the root
prompt, activate the networking. For me, that meant doing an 'ifconfig eth0
192.168.1.7' and then '/etc/init.d/sshd start'. Once the network was up and
I could ping other machines on my LAN, I changed the root password, and then
went back to my desktop, opened an xterm, and ssh'ed into the
to-be-installed machine. The rest of the installation was done through an
ssh connection in an xterm. (!)

The next step was to partition the disks, and I was happy to see my old and
trusty friend fdisk was the recommended tool. Oddly, however, fdisk /dev/hda
returned "Unable to open /dev/hda". After examining the output of dmesg, I
discovered that the new SATA drives are accessible by /dev/sda instead of
/dev/hda. Checking my kernel source revealed that, indeed, SATA is part of
the SCSI system of the kernel. Having passed that obstacle, I was able to
fdisk /dev/sda with no trouble. My disk is a 150G drive, and I chose a 32M
partition for boot, 2G for swap, 30G for the system, and 130G for /dev/sda4
to contain my files.

Now, at this point, I have to make a decision. Do I go through the long
complete compile for which Gentoo is so famous? I was actually expecting
that I would, since any alternative approach was unknown to me. Imagine my
delight to learn that Gentoo includes what are called "stages", which are
precompiled binaries that you can install in lieu of doing the compile
yourself. You can choose to do one of three "stages". In the first stage,
you compile everything yourself. In stage 2 you get more compiled binaries
but you still compile some applications, and stage 3 appears to be a much
more complete binary installation of the whole system.

So, Gentoo's reputation as being a distribution that requires you to spend
days (or weeks, months, years, as the jokes go) compiling is simply
unearned. Nothing could be further from the truth - it can be a binary-only
distribution, or a source-only distribution; it's your choice.

I chose to do every kind of installation available, to see the difference
between them all. First I tried a stage 2 installation, which saved me from
the bulk of the compilation process. Installing the system at this point was
a simple untarring of the stage 2 file, and I was done. Not very exciting,
but it does get the job done.

Unsatisfied, I started at the beginning and did a stage 1 installation. This
is the step that compiled GCC, glibc, and a variety of other necessary
system applications. In the stage 1 installation, bootstrapping the system
from scratch took 53 minutes. The next stage took 42 minutes. I was
wondering if I'd ever see these famous month-long compiles. Having passed
all three stages in an afternoon, I was ready to move on to compiling my
kernel.

Gentoo includes a nice utility called 'genkernel' which, should you choose
to use it, compiles the kernel for you (yes, I've gotten lazy over the
years). The .config file is the same that was used to build the LiveCD, so
it'll support everything imaginable (and takes quite a long time to build.
At least a couple minutes on my Opteron). The kernel compilation was
joyfully easy and quick.

Next up, setting up the system. Before proceeding, you will want to install
your favorite text editor. For me, 'emerge vim' and I was ready to go. The
default editor 'nano' (some sort of pico clone) that comes installed on the
LiveCD is fine for newbies, but vi it ain't. There are several files that
you'll be editing by hand, including creating your own /etc/fstab and
/boot/grub/grub.conf by hand, so you'll want to be comfortable in your
editor.

In addition to some sundry and easy steps that are outlined in the handbook,
there are some steps here that separate the men from the boys. This part of
the installation is the most involved - you have to do a lot of the work
yourself, and this is the area in which I believe Gentoo could improve the
most. Really, manually creating files like fstab is fine if you've been
sysadmining Linux for years, but for newer folks, it just isn't acceptable.
I appreciate the power and control that Gentoo gives me, but there is no
good reason to have to create your own grub.conf and fstab.


The Smoke Test

Having created my grub.conf and fstab, I held my breath and rebooted the
box. Unfortunately, the bootup process failed as it was unable to load the
Promise SATA driver, and thus I was not able to mount my filesystems. In
other distributions, at this point you'd be best served just starting from
the beginning, but thankfully, recovering with Gentoo is easy. I just booted
back up with the LiveCD, remounted my system partitions, and went back to
work on the kernel. This time I modified
/usr/share/genkernel/x86_64/kernel-config-2.6 and changed
CONFIG_SCSI_SATA_PROMISE from "m" to "y". While I was in there, I disabled
some things that I won't need, like USB, IEEE1394, etc. I re-ran genkernel,
rebooted, and this time my system booted with no problems.


Thoughts on the booted distribution

The first thing you notice about the system is its emptiness. The bareness
of the distribution is absolutely thrilling to minimalists who don't prefer
the kitchen-sink approach to Linux distributions. As you need things, you
install them with a single command. If a program has dependencies, those
dependencies are automatically downloaded and built along with the
application you requested. When I needed to download something, and 'ftp'
returned 'command not found', I ran 'emerge ftp' and less than 60 seconds
later I had an ftp client. This is how everything works on Gentoo and I love
it.

So, besides the ease of use, the main advantage of Gentoo is the control it
gives you over the binaries you produce and run. Before beginning any
compile, you can customize the compile through an /etc/make.conf file, as
well as "on-the-fly" environment variables from the shell. You can tell it
to avoid SSL, QT, and GTK+ libraries, run GCC with -O2 (or -O3, etc), and so
forth. Just setup your make.conf with exactly the flags that you desire, and
everything you build will be compiled with those preferences. It's a real
joy to know that the binaries you have on your system were compiled by you
with exactly the libraries you wanted and the optimization flags you
requested.

Additionally, as with most other distributions, handling updates is simple.
When the vendor releases a security alert or bugfix update, all you have to
do is run 'emerge sync' to download the list of updated software packages,
and then 'emerge packagename' to update your package. It's as simple as
that.


Conclusion

The customization and optimization does make a difference and gives you
fine-tuned control over the final product. If you rely on a lot of
third-party applications, however, you may be best served sticking with Red
Hat Enterprise Linux or Fedora, but if all you want is a solid Linux system
to operate your standard internet enabled services like LAMP, you can't do
better than Gentoo Linux. I have not yet tried Gentoo out as a desktop, so
currently I am only recommending it for server use. I hope in the next few
weeks (or months) I will try X and see how I like it. I expect to be
pleased.


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  1. 2004-03-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  2. 2004-03-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  3. 2004-03-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  4. 2004-03-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  5. 2004-03-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Paging RobM
  6. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  7. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  8. 2004-03-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  9. 2004-03-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  10. 2004-03-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  11. 2004-03-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  12. 2004-03-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  13. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  14. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  15. 2004-03-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  16. 2004-03-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  17. 2004-03-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  18. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> FW: [hangout] Demo CD
  19. 2004-03-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  20. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Pasha
  21. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  22. 2004-03-12 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  23. 2004-03-12 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  24. 2004-03-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  25. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  26. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Power Supply
  27. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Demo CD
  28. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] (fwd) Re: DRM company tracking.
  29. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Demo CD
  30. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Demo CD
  31. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Demo CD
  32. 2004-03-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] (fwd) Re: DRM company tracking.
  33. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Army to Gates: Halt the free software
  34. 2004-03-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Army to Gates: Halt the free software
  35. 2004-03-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Power Supply
  36. 2004-03-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Demo CD
  37. 2004-03-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  38. 2004-03-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  39. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Power Supply
  40. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Demo CD
  41. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  42. 2004-03-11 David Etengoff <edtechmdy-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [hangout] Please remove my name from mailing list
  43. 2004-03-11 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Adam here is the ad FREEDOM-IT
  44. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  45. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  46. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  47. 2004-03-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Guest editorial: Open source for capitalists
  48. 2004-03-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Motorola readies music-oriented Linux mobile phone
  49. 2004-03-11 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] GnomeMeeting's PC Conferencing Alternative
  50. 2004-03-11 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  51. 2004-03-11 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  52. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Fair Use
  53. 2004-03-11 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tonights Meeting
  54. 2004-03-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hardware Review: The Linare Home and Business PC
  55. 2004-03-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Hardware Review: The Linare Home and Business PC
  56. 2004-03-10 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Local Press on GNU/Linux
  57. 2004-03-10 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] k&r
  58. 2004-03-10 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Open source still faces open legal questions - BS
  59. 2004-03-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open source still faces open legal questions - BS Article of the Day
  60. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  61. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  62. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  63. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  64. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Study: Open-source databases going mainstream
  65. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Study: Open-source databases going mainstream
  66. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The Berkeley Software Distribution operating systems have much to
  67. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The Berkeley Software Distribution operating systems have much to
  68. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] XFree86 gets underwhelmed by Linux distro support / Suse 9.1 Due Out
  69. 2004-03-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] XFree86 gets underwhelmed by Linux distro support / Suse 9.1 Due Out
  70. 2004-03-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MEETING ON Wednsday Evening
  71. 2004-03-05 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Meeting
  72. 2004-03-05 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Meeting
  73. 2004-03-05 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Meeting
  74. 2004-03-05 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Meeting
  75. 2004-03-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] More LAke Placid Photos
  76. 2004-03-13 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  77. 2004-03-13 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Minutes for March 11, 2004
  78. 2004-03-13 Josh Rabinowitz <joshr-at-joshr.com> Subject: [hangout] Using Perl with SWISH-E: Talk 3/16
  79. 2004-03-13 From: "ruben" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Night - Tonight
  80. 2004-03-13 From: "ruben" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] tech night
  81. 2004-03-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] New Wireless connection
  82. 2004-03-16 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] low balling
  83. 2004-03-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] low balling
  84. 2004-03-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] PowerBook CDROM is very flakey
  85. 2004-03-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] FSF Event Philadelphia PA March 26, 2004
  86. 2004-03-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] (fwd) More Supporters of Digital Rights needed!
  87. 2004-03-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] (fwd) More Supporters of Digital Rights needed!
  88. 2004-03-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] FSF Event Philadelphia PA March 26, 2004
  89. 2004-03-16 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] FSF Event Philadelphia PA March 26, 2004
  90. 2004-03-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Employment Opportunities - NYC Government
  91. 2004-03-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Federal CIOs tout benefits of 'open source' software
  92. 2004-03-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: BricsCAD goes Linux [backoffice2-at-bricscad.com]
  93. 2004-03-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] My Linux Desktop Odyssey, 2004
  94. 2004-03-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] My Linux Desktop Odyssey, 2004
  95. 2004-03-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] My Linux Desktop Odyssey, 2004
  96. 2004-03-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] My Linux Desktop Odyssey, 2004
  97. 2004-03-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] My Linux Desktop Odyssey, 2004
  98. 2004-03-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] (fwd) More Supporters of Digital Rights needed!
  99. 2004-03-16 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Court Opens Way to Claim the Public Domain
  100. 2004-03-08 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Fwd: [Patents] Halloween X
  101. 2004-03-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux
  102. 2004-03-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  103. 2004-03-17 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] New York City Contracts
  104. 2004-03-17 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  105. 2004-03-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Opinion: Software Freedom Day 2004
  106. 2004-03-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux
  107. 2004-03-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  108. 2004-03-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Luck of the Irish
  109. 2004-03-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] New York City Contracts
  110. 2004-03-17 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Re: [hangout] PowerBook CDROM is very flakey
  111. 2004-03-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Elections
  112. 2004-03-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Wal-Mart sells PCs with Sun's Linux
  113. 2004-03-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Elections
  114. 2004-03-31 Spidey309-at-aol.com Re: [hangout] Elections
  115. 2004-03-31 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Elections
  116. 2004-03-31 Spidey309-at-aol.com Subject: [hangout] Elections
  117. 2004-03-31 Spidey309-at-aol.com Subject: [hangout] Elections
  118. 2004-03-30 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Off to Albany
  119. 2004-03-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft and DRM
  120. 2004-03-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Business Week Article on Free Softwatre
  121. 2004-03-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Off to Albany
  122. 2004-03-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Off to Albany
  123. 2004-03-29 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] (no subject)
  124. 2004-03-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] A note to the Group
  125. 2004-03-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] 48 Hours on Vacation and the WHOLE WORLD CHANGES - We now have 2 moons like Tattoon in Starwars
  126. 2004-03-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Realtech card query (previous Subject in error, was
  127. 2004-03-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Realtech card query (previous Subject in error, was
  128. 2004-03-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] A note to the Group
  129. 2004-03-28 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A note to the Group
  130. 2004-03-28 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A note to the Group
  131. 2004-03-28 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Realtech card query (previous Subject in error, was "Re:made a quantum leap")
  132. 2004-03-28 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] A note to the Group
  133. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] sound is very low
  134. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] sound is very low
  135. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Realtech card query (previous Subject in error, was
  136. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [hangout] Realtech card query (previous Subject in error, was "Re:made a
  137. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Made a quantum leap
  138. 2004-03-27 Joe Villari <joev_nylxs-at-pipeline.com> Subject: [hangout] A note to the Group
  139. 2004-03-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Java Deployment Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York]
  140. 2004-03-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl/MySQL web developer (telecommute), United States, va, newport news
  141. 2004-03-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] "Enterprise Assessment Kit Available Now to Speed D esktop Linux E valuations
  142. 2004-03-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell to Combine Best of KDE and Gnome
  143. 2004-03-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Yankee Independently Pits Windows TCO vs. Linux TCO
  144. 2004-03-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> RE: [hangout] "Enterprise Assessment Kit Available Now to Speed D
  145. 2004-03-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Yankee Independently Pits Windows TCO vs. Linux TCO
  146. 2004-03-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP Move Could Change Microsoft Strategy
  147. 2004-03-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] "Enterprise Assessment Kit Available Now to Speed D
  148. 2004-03-25 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] "Enterprise Assessment Kit Available Now to Speed D
  149. 2004-03-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] "Enterprise Assessment Kit Available Now to Speed Desktop Linux E
  150. 2004-03-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  151. 2004-03-24 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  152. 2004-03-24 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  153. 2004-03-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  154. 2004-03-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  155. 2004-03-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a PIA
  156. 2004-03-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell to Combine Best of KDE and Gnome
  157. 2004-03-24 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] New Downtown Space
  158. 2004-03-24 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Paging David Sugar
  159. 2004-03-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Dispelling the myths of Gentoo Linux, an honest review
  160. 2004-03-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Novell to Combine Best of KDE and Gnome
  161. 2004-03-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Wal-Mart and Sun share Linux desktop lust
  162. 2004-03-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell to Combine Best of KDE and Gnome
  163. 2004-03-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Dispelling the myths of Gentoo Linux, an honest review
  164. 2004-03-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RE: [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  165. 2004-03-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Open Source and Free Software Conference To Be Held at University of
  166. 2004-03-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] What Is New in SUSE LINUX 9.1 ?
  167. 2004-03-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] What Is New in SUSE LINUX 9.1 ?
  168. 2004-03-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] RE: [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for T
  169. 2004-03-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] RE: [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  170. 2004-03-22 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [Perl Jobs] Mid-Level Perl Programmer (onsite), United States, NY, New York
  171. 2004-03-22 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl Jobs keep coming
  172. 2004-03-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Hello World
  173. 2004-03-22 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Hello World
  174. 2004-03-22 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] An Advanced File System for Linux: JFS
  175. 2004-03-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] An Advanced File System for Linux: JFS
  176. 2004-03-22 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  177. 2004-03-21 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] About the Great NYFU and NY Fairuse Flap in 20 years.
  178. 2004-03-20 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Elections
  179. 2004-03-19 Spidey309-at-aol.com Re: [hangout] Elections
  180. 2004-03-19 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Elections
  181. 2004-03-19 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Elections
  182. 2004-03-19 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] hangout management
  183. 2004-03-19 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Does anyone see the CEO of Brooklyn's fingerprints on this?
  184. 2004-03-19 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] FSI Meeting Canceled until Saturday Night
  185. 2004-03-19 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] You have to change this.
  186. 2004-03-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Elections
  187. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Elections
  188. 2004-03-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Elections
  189. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Elections
  190. 2004-03-19 Spidey309-at-aol.com Re: [hangout] Elections
  191. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Elections
  192. 2004-03-19 Spidey309-at-aol.com Subject: [hangout] Elections
  193. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Unsubscribe
  194. 2004-03-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> RE: [hangout] Does anyone see the CEO of Brooklyn's fingerprints
  195. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: [DMCA_Discuss] New bill to veto Supreme Court decisions
  196. 2004-03-19 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Does anyone see the CEO of Brooklyn's fingerprints
  197. 2004-03-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [hangout] Does anyone see the CEO of Brooklyn's fingerprints on this?
  198. 2004-03-19 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] You have to change this.
  199. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] You have to change this.
  200. 2004-03-18 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] You have to change this.
  201. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] low balling
  202. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn]
  203. 2004-03-18 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Made a quantum leap
  204. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Want to read something scary?
  205. 2004-03-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux
  206. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [nycwireless] Wireless Card Recommendation of S
  207. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Re: [nycwireless] Wireless Card Recommendation of S
  208. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [nycwireless] Wireless Card Recommendation of S USE
  209. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nycwireless] Wireless Card Recommendation of SUSE
  210. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  211. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  212. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Novell News
  213. 2004-03-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  214. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: BricsCAD goes Linux [backoffice2-at-bricscad.com]
  215. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] HP Starts Pushing Desktop Linux
  216. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  217. 2004-03-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: BricsCAD goes Linux [backoffice2-at-bricscad.com]
  218. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  219. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  220. 2004-03-18 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  221. 2004-03-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nazgul-at-somewhere.com: Re: Embperl programmer needed]
  222. 2004-03-18 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RedHat Enterprise.
  223. 2004-03-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] RedHat Enterprise.
  224. 2004-03-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] RedHat Enterprise.
  225. 2004-03-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Overview of this afternoon's Orgcom meeting
  226. 2004-03-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Overview of this afternoon's Orgcom meeting
  227. 2004-03-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Orgcom] NEXT MEETING (3-28-04) [chand-at-chandeeland.org]
  228. 2004-03-15 From: "M. Halegua" <phantom21-at-mindspring.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: [Orgcom] NEXT MEETING (3-28-04) [chand-at-chandeeland.org]
  229. 2004-03-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Fwd: [Orgcom] NEXT MEETING (3-28-04) [chand-at-chandeeland.org]
  230. 2004-03-16 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Orgcom Report to NYLXS
  231. 2004-03-16 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Fwd: Re: [hangout] Orgcom Report to NYLXS [phantom21-at-mindspring.com]
  232. 2004-03-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] We NEED one more person to go to ORGCOM this Sunday
  233. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] We NEED one more person to go to ORGCOM this Sunday
  234. 2004-03-27 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] We NEED one more person to go to ORGCOM this Sunday

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