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Some lawmakers are introducing a bill that Hollywood is not happy about ? one that would allow consumers to make personal copies of digital entertainment like DVDs to be played on whatever device they want. Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., author of the Digital Media Consumers' Rights Act (search), says consumers should not always have to worry about being slapped with a lawsuit every time they make a copy of their favorite videos. "We are seeking to empower the purchasers of digital media so that they can use the media in ways that are more convenient to them," Boucher told Foxnews.com. Boucher said that empowerment would mean "for example, by being able to move digital material ? whether it's video on a DVD or materials on a compact disc or the text of an electronic book ? around from digital device to digital device in their home or in their extended personal environment." The new bill amends the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (search) of 1998, which allowed copyright holders to put digital locks on their work and makes it illegal to break those locks. Boucher's bill allows owners of DVDs and other works that have a digital lock to bypass the security and copy the work so long as the user is engaging in "fair use" of the product and not infringing upon its copyright. A hearing on the bill has been tentatively scheduled for Wednesday. The Motion Picture Association of America (search), which represents Hollywood's interests in Washington, D.C., has been the most vocal critic of moves to change the DMCA to allow people to make personal copies of movies. "Anything that allows you to decrypt the DVD would not be a legal product," said MPAA spokesman Rich Taylor. "There is no right in the copyright law to make backup copies of motion pictures, so the whole argument that people should have the right to make backup copies of DVDs has no legal support whatsoever," said Fritz Attaway, executive vice president of the MPAA. "It's against consumers' interests to permit devices that make backup copies," he added, "because there is no way that a device can distinguish between a backup copy for personal use and making a copy for friends, family acquaintances or even selling on the street corner." The MPAA recently sued 321 Studios (search), which makes a tool commonly called a "ripper," which circumvents the digital locks so consumers can make back up copies of DVDs. 321 Studio's software does include piracy provisions ? a screen is inserted into the copy warning the user that the copy is only for personal use within the home and watermarking technology allows each copy to be tracked and traced. Judges have ruled against the technology, but the company says it's merely helping people get the most for their money and that Boucher's bill would help further the "fair use" cause. One former lawmaker said he didn't realize that the DMCA would restrict digital-content copying to the extent that it has. "I, like most members of Congress, had no idea that what would be deemed to be fair use for books, CDs, and TV programs is not the case for DVDs ? and nobody intended that the people that would enable you to make a single copy of a DVD should be held criminally liable and go to jail and that's insane," Bob Livingston (search), former U.S. Republican representative from Louisiana and House Appropriations Committee chairman, told Foxnews.com. Livingston is now a lobbyist for 321 Studios. "Moms and dads shouldn't have to fork over another $20-$30 every time little Johnny or Suzie scratches their DVD. The technology exists to prevent them from having to do that," said 321 Studios President Robert Moore. "We're not talking about free use here and we're not talking about providing consumers the skeleton key to everyone else's property," he added. "We're talking about giving people lawful use of the property they lawfully acquired." Livingston and others say the MPAA was merely trying to maintain a vise grip on content and pointed out that MPAA President Jack Valenti (search) in 1982 famously said the VCR would prove to be the "Boston Strangler" of the movie industry. "They make the same argument about the new technology that's come out within the past 50 years ... from the VHS to the CD burner to now this technology," Moore said. "The MPAA has chosen to seek a scapegoat for their very real problems that occur in China and other countries where they get their movies knocked off in mass production lines and sold for a tremendous discount," Livingston added. The MPAA argues that it's in consumers' best interests that the digital locks not be bypassed. "These products like 321 allow people to be free riders," Attaway said. "It's the concept of buy-one-get-one-free, only it's not just get-one-free but it's get-as-many-as-you-want-to-make-free ... It raises the prices for legitimate copies and it also reduces the availability of the copies." Boucher has been spending the past two years garnering support for his bill. The likes of Intel, the Consumer Electronics Association, the American Library Association, the Digital Future Coalition, Consumers Union and the Electronic Frontier Foundation are now throwing their weight behind it. "Making this change is manifestly in the public interest. It's in the interest of empowering the consumer," Boucher said. "Once the consumer is more empowered to use media he lawfully acquires ... he will want to buy more media ... even the content creators, the people who oppose this bill, will in the long-term, benefit." Livingston said he thought support existed for the bill but 321 still may not have luck. "We think that when the average member of Congress who voted for the DMCA in 1998 understands the inequity here that these people will make their case very clearly and simply and be overwhelmingly approved by a majority of members of Congress," Livingston said. "The trick is getting members to pay attention in a political [election] year." On 2004.06.15 11:15 Ruben I Safir wrote: > > ermissions on Digital Media Drive Scholars to Lawbooks By TOM ZELLER Jr. > > Published: June 14, 2004 > > When some 20,000 first-year American medical students reported to their > schools last summer, they received a free 20-minute multimedia collage > of music, text and short video clips from television doctor dramas, past > and present, burned onto a CD-ROM. > > "The patients you meet in the coming years may have doubts about you > because of the doctors they see on prime-time television," the > introduction reads. "The aim of this presentation is to explore why that > is, and suggest what you can do about it." > > But the CD was perhaps more of an education for its developer, Joseph > Turow, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg School > for Communication. > > "It's crazy," Professor Turow said of the labyrinth of permissions, > waivers and fees he navigated to get the roughly three minutes of video > clips included on the CD, which was paid for by a grant from the Robert > Wood Johnson Foundation. The process took months, Professor Turow said, > and cost about $17,000 in fees and royalties paid to the various studios > and guilds for the use of clips. The film used ranged from, for example, > a 1961 episode of "Ben Casey" to a more-recent scene from "ER." > > This Friday, Professor Turow and other experts will meet at a conference > sponsored by the Annenberg School to debate how digital media fits into > the concept of "fair use" - a murky safe harbor in copyright law that > allows scholars and researchers limited use of protected materials for > educational or commentary purposes. > > The conference title itself is a lament: "Knowledge Held Hostage: > Scholarly Versus Corporate Rights in the Digital Age." Many scholars, > librarians and legal experts see rich promise for the use of multimedia > materials in research and education. But the possibility of litigation > over file-sharing and confusion over digital copyright protections have > scholars feeling threatened about venturing beyond the more familiar > world of printed texts, Professor Turow said. > > "It's a pain in the tuchis, frankly," said Rachel Durkin-Drga, the > production manager at the Performing Arts Center at the University of > Texas at Austin, recalling 10 years of attempting to secure permission > to use various pieces of music. Even when educators seek to pay for use, > she said, simply finding and contacting all of the people and agencies > necessary to get clearance can be prohibitively daunting. > > In one instance, she tried unsuccessfully for months to secure > permission to use a song to accompany a piece choreographed by a faculty > member for students in an undergraduate dance program. The dance was > performed in silence. > > Edward W. Felten, a professor of computer science at Princeton > University, was at the center of a legal battle in 2001, when > representatives of the recording industry threatened to sue him and the > university over the publication of a paper analyzing a set of digital > watermarking technologies designed to secure music files. The recording > industry based its claim on the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, > which makes it a crime to circumvent antipiracy measures built into > digital media. > > "After a long legal fight involving withdrawal and later resubmission of > our paper, and our filing of a lawsuit against the parties who tried to > suppress our work," Professor Felten wrote in response to a call from > conference moderators for tales of copyright woe, "we won the right to > publish our paper. Attempts to create a research exemption to the > D.M.C.A. have failed thus far." > > Whether academia's difficulties in navigating the world of multimedia > copyrights is entirely the result of corporate bullying is a matter of > debate, however. > > Bruce A. Lehman, who ran the federal patent and trademark office from > 1993 to 1998 and who was at the forefront of the contentious battles > over digital rights legislation, has long insisted that criticisms and > complaints about copyright controls are overblown. He has argued that > academia and industry simply need to find ways of streamlining the > licensing process for digital media in the same way they have for > printed material. > > "There is an element in the user community that just wants to get it all > for free," said Mr. Lehman, who is now senior counsel in Washington at > Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld, a law firm. He added that demonizing > copyright holders simply causes "fear where there really shouldn't be > any." > > That echoes the thinking of Peter Andrew Jaszi, a professor of law at > American University's Washington College of Law and one of the panel > members scheduled to speak at Friday's conference. Professor Jaszi > concedes that "in some cases, the fair-use doctrine in copyright law may > actually not be adequate in its present form for the uses of > researchers," but he also believes part of the problem is that scholars > are poorly informed about what they can and cannot do. > > "The likelihood of litigation is low to begin with," Professor Jaszi > said, but the lack of coordination in academia on these issues probably > makes the confusion worse. > > "There are no disciplinary rules of best practice for cultural > historians or film scholars or medical historians," he noted. "And, in > the absence of that kind of collective understanding, it's no wonder > that individuals give up the game before it begins." > > The conference is intended, in part, to change this situation. But > persuading scholars to test the boundaries of fair use in the digital > age will be an uphill battle. > > "A lot of this is self-censorship," Ms. Durkin-Drga said, "but, frankly, > who can afford to take a chance?" After all, she pointed out, the > Recording Industry Association of America "is going after teenagers." > > > Free Trial of The New York Times Electronic Edition. > > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like > Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI > Safir 1998 > > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 > http://fairuse.nylxs.com > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy > Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and > articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - > See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... > > 1-718-382-0585 > ____________________________ > NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene > Fair Use - > because it's either fair use or useless.... > NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc > -- __________________________ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn.... 1-718-382-0585 ____________________________ NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene Fair Use - because it's either fair use or useless.... NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] WinPenguins 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux 2.2 CD 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM 2004-06-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Use of Linux Grows in Public Sector 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Evan's Summer 2004 NYLXS Calendar (June, July, August 2004) 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] gnu linux1 material 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton] 2004-06-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1 2004-06-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton] 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton] 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton] 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gnu linux1 material 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton] 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] gnu linux1 material 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD papers 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD papers 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004 2004-06-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software freedom Day 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS 2004 Membership Dues 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004 2004-06-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] console based calendar 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Superman Videos 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Superman Videos 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd) 2004-06-12 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd) 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd) 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Your Linux Today Security Letter for June 11, 2004 [reply-ad83-1808-2f6b114cd7-at-nl.internet.com] 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: GNU Common C++ 1.2.0 and the patented todo tatoo... [dyfet-at-ostel.com] 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I'll be at the meeting tonight 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-11 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] FYI: SoftwareFreedomDay.org 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP - CGI - Mod_Perl Web Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York City [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] God Bless America. 2004-06-10 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton? 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: More from "News"day 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today 2004-06-10 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs 2004-06-09 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7 2004-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] more from alt.sports.basebase.ny-mets: Michael Moore 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Chaverware 2004-06-09 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe 2004-06-08 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives 2004-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: REVISED: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 8, 2004.] 2004-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The gift economy and free software 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Open-source' Solaris draws lukewarm response 2004-06-07 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming 2004-06-07 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Required Perl Expert (onsite), United States, Delaware, Newark [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] More Cool People Needed (onsite), United States, MA, Waltham [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs Jobs 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Free Expo Pass for LinuxWorld, the industry's leading event 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-07 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] reposting 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP / CGI / mod_perl expert (telecommute), United States, n/a, n/a [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Nite 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] How NOT to lodge a compalint 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 6, 2004. [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us] 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] And other interesting places .... 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Good place to send a spare $20 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives 2004-06-06 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com] 2004-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Microsoft Patents 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Patents 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun releasing code 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Peter Siegel <psiegel-at-copper.net> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn] 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards? 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership 2004-06-03 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Linux Grows in Popularity 2004-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Linux Journal Weekly Newsletter -- June 2 [html-at-ssc.com] 2004-06-02 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun's Java Desktop System 2 is No Improvement 2004-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Weird Software License 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Weird Software License 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive 2004-06-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools 2004-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Defending Small Schools 2004-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ... 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Linux Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NJ, Somerset [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] debian-installer 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] debian-installer 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva times and places 2004-06-29 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] debian-installer 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux job for Lucas Films - 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Movie 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Movie 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP rolls out new desktop, workstations 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB? 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB? 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D ays 2004-06-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng 2004-06-28 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] (fwd) [alois-at-astro.ch: Re: Redhat support experience] 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Bar Mitzvah 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS - Security built inside: 2004-06-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Grep 2004-06-27 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB? 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Bar Mitzva 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] next weekend 2004-06-27 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva 2004-06-26 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed 2004-06-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Test 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Test 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: RHCA 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] toshiba drive 2004-06-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Copyright wars on again 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Jihad 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tony Wiener - Eat your heart out - GNU/Linux in government 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Retailer opens in Canada 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: A LITTLE QUOTE FROM MY SISTER (REGARDING THE BUSH ADMINISTRAT 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Employment HTML Developer 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware 10 is released! 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004 2004-06-23 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays and counti ng 2004-06-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays 2004-06-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng 2004-06-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NY, New York] 2004-06-22 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl Programmer, United States, CT, Stamford [jobs-admin-at-perl.org] 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Initiative - June 24, 2004 6:45pm 2004-06-22 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Large Plans for Linux at Marist College 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] infringement Festival - the LINUX of theatre 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop Linux: Sun Shines 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] distro investigation for upcoming technight 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suse 9.1 Personal ISOs are available online... 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FAT Patent Review May Threaten Linux Foundation 2004-06-20 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Night - Paul Robert 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Music DRM 2004-06-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail 2004-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: your mail 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> 2004-06-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Resource for Educational IT 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Ontario's school system gives StarOffice a shot 2004-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] maildir to cyrus 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Putting together PDF files 2004-06-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Calander: 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] In Service Program 2004-06-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Publishing 2004-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Publisher Partnership Invitation 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] U.S. House subcommittee approves spyware bill 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best 2004-06-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [thomas-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: kernel (SuSE-SA:2004:017)] 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [draht-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] Discontinued SUSE Linux Distributions] 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Articles on gconf and Sun Business start with FS 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> 2004-06-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof). 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