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DATE 2004-06-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2004-06-02
FROM From: "Inker, Evan"
SUBJECT Subject: [hangout] Sun's Java Desktop System 2 is No Improvement

Sun's Java Desktop System 2 is No Improvement
By Eugenia Loli-Queru - Posted on 2004-06-02 03:13:06
at OSNews [http://www.osnews.com/]

Sun introduced recently the second version of Java Desktop System
[http://wwws.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/index.html] (JDS) for a flat
fee per employee/per year. We tried it and here is what we found out about:

Basically, very few things have changed in the client version of JDS. The
desktop and installation looks very much the same as it did a few months
ago. The installation has a few bugs: a) some strings haven't been converted
to "Sun JDS" from "SuSE Linux", b) Evolution and gnome-user-docs packages
are stalling during installation because of the misbehaving
'scrollkeeper-in' process that takes 99% of the CPU and needs killing to
continue (same bug as on JDS1
[http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5286]) and c) when trying to edit a
user's groups the font representing the groups is unreadable.

After you've installed the system from its three CDs, the Gnome 2.2 desktop
comes up (with a few gnome apps upgraded to 2.4 status) and it looks very
similar to how it used to look before. Star Office 7-update2 is there,
Mozilla 1.4.1 is there, Evolution 1.4.x and Gnomemeeting 0.98 are there too.


And then the big boom: JDS2 has the same bug as JDS 1 and the previous SuSE
Linuxes had: some RealTek revisions won't work because of the patches used
on the Sun/SuSE modified kernel. Some Sun engineers emailed me about it the
last time I mentioned that
[http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5286&page=2], but the problem is
just not resolved (the card is fully compatible with Linux and all the other
10-15 Linux distros/versions I have tried it on have worked fine). Inetd is
up, the driver module is up properly, but there is no network functionality,
not even when trying to ping my neighbor PC through IP. I am pretty sure
that if Sun had moved to kernel 2.6 the patches used would be different
enough to not trouble the RealTek driver, but it seems that Sun didn't even
bother upgrading their 2.4 kernel above 2.4.19 (same as in JDS1 months ago).
Bah.

And then there was the Mozilla resize problem. Now, that is a new bug only
on JDS2: resizing the Mozilla 1.4 window to become bigger works great,
resizing it to making it smaller it stalls. Other applications don't have
the particular problem, only Mozilla does (however refreshing of any window
while resizing is not done in acceptable intervals, giving the feeling that
the operation is slow in general).

And then it was the fact that after you left the JDS2 untouched for a few
minutes and it would go to the mode of screensaver-locking the monitor would
re-sync itself over and over again (making the same mechanical sound as it
was changing resolution or refresh rate, but it wasn't really).

And then there is Nautilus. Sun does a mediocre job automounting all
devices/partitions on "This Computer" Nautilus view: someone tell me the
logic behind naming a partition as "Disk (3)" (while it is hda2) and when
double clicking into it it, it gets renamed as "data 1". Honestly, that's
confusing as hell.

But there are more problems: for example, navigating to "data1" partition,
which is nothing but my Slackware (also kernel 2.4.x and ReiserFS-based),
Nautilus would misbehave: click on any file on my personal folder
(/data1/home/eugenia/) and they would dissapear from Nautilus! Thankfully
the files were not getting deleted (I almost got a heart attack for a second
or two), they were just dissapearing from the Nautilus view. Refreshing the
folder would show again all files until you simply select a file and it
would dissapear again. I don't remember seeing this bug occuring on JDS1.

As for the sharing options on folders, the UI is terrible (check
screenshot). Usability is ranking zero in the 3 dialogs when trying to
create a new samba share on a selected folder.

Regarding the games included, the Scores don't work (they don't get
recorded). There is a caveat on the way you configure the gnome-games source
code (both FreeBSD and Slackware has fallen into the trap recently) and
Sun's JDS2 has the same problem. Anyways, that's a small problem compared to
the Stones game which is completely unusable. It gets stalled (unrefreshed
windows etc), the music it uses it gets repeated over and over (similar
effect as when you run a modern game on a very old PC, however here it is
not the case as my PC is fast enough and "top" doesn't show any high CPU
consumption generated from anything) and you have to kill it in order to get
rid of it.

Yes, you could argue that having Star Office 7-up2, the brand new Java
System Update Service (to update the OS via the net) and the Java Studio IDE
worth the $50-100 bucks that Sun will ask you for it. But on the other hand,
when you can't use your browser or your network card on a Linux-certified PC
or when Sun has made zero progress to offer new features on the desktop side
itself, it is all a moot point. Honestly, JDS2 should have being called JDS
1.1, definetely not 2.0.

The only part of the OS that has seen new features and real progress are the
system management tools (coming on the last CD in the box):

Java Desktop System Configuration Manager, Release 1: Policy-based desktop
configuration manager. Java Desktop System Configuration Manager defines
user settings and provides the ability to lockdown user desktop systems.

Sun Control Station 2.1: Comprehensive toolset for centralized desktop
deployment and management . Sun Control Station, 2.1 is ideal for remotely
performing desktop provisioning, management, and software updating. The
easy-to-use interface also performs dependency checking, health monitoring
and asset management.

Remote Desktop Takeover: Remote administration including viewing and
interacting with users desktop display to help, guide and troubleshoot.
(don't get excited, it's just VNC-based, so it would be much slower than X
remote display or Terminal Services).

Unfortunately I could not use the new management tools because the server
side requires 1 GB of RAM on a machine that needs to run RHEL 2.1 or Red Hat
Linux 7.3. I don't have a machine with 1 GB RAM (except my dual Power Mac
which has 2 GB of RAM) and if I had one, it would be on a very recent
machine, and a very recent machine wouldn't guarantee to run with Red Hat
7.3 as this OS is already old. I don't know what Sun is thinking for not
updating this software to work with newer server OSes. In any case, the good
people at Sun sent a demo over of the management services running on a
Mozilla window that doesn't require an external server (see screenshot)
which worked adequately.

Conclusively whatever problems I encountered with JDS1 (read my review of
JDS1 [http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5286]) are ALL still here with
JDS2 and there are even new ones. I just can't recommend it, it is not
polished and it is not tested properly. I would have expected a better job
from Sun.

If the newly announced Red Hat Desktop
[http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/desktop/] (part of the Enterprise
family of OSes, also targetting the enterprise desktop) manages to be
bug-free, stable, faster and offers server side management tools like JDS2
does, I would recommend corporate buyers going with Red Hat. I am not sure
if SuSE has something similar in terms of remote management tools, but if
they do I would think them as serious contestands too in the enterprise
marketplace. Sun's JDS is just not though. It falls through in many places
and it dissapoints on many levels.

Oh, and what's the deal with the over 200 pages of licensing agreements? Why
the need for so much wasted paper?

Installation: 6.5/10
Hardware Support: 7/10
Ease of use: 7.5/10
Features: 7/10
Credibility: 6/10 (stability, bugs, security)
Speed: 6.5/10 (throughput, UI responsiveness, latency)

Overall: 6.75
( Original Story URL at http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7228 )



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NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] WinPenguins
  2. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] GNU/Linux 2.2 CD
  3. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up
  4. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM - Follow Up
  5. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NY Times Article on DRM
  6. 2004-06-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  7. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  8. 2004-06-15 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  9. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YellowDog 3.0.1
  10. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Use of Linux Grows in Public Sector
  11. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Evan's Summer 2004 NYLXS Calendar (June, July, August 2004)
  12. 2004-06-15 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  13. 2004-06-15 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  14. 2004-06-15 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1
  15. 2004-06-15 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  16. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  17. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  18. 2004-06-15 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  19. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  20. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] latest version of GNU/Linux 1
  21. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  22. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [ecorrado-at-athena.rider.edu: Re: Linix Users Group/In Princeton]
  23. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] gnu linux1 material
  24. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] SFD papers
  25. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] SFD papers
  26. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004
  27. 2004-06-14 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  28. 2004-06-14 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  29. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel
  30. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  31. 2004-06-14 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  32. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Note to Peter Seigel
  33. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Evan's NYLXS Calendar - June, July, August 28, 2004
  34. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Weekly NYLXS Announcments
  35. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  36. 2004-06-14 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Software freedom Day
  37. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10,
  38. 2004-06-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10,
  39. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS 2004 Membership Dues
  40. 2004-06-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Meeting Minutes from NYLXS Meeting Thurs, June 10, 2004
  41. 2004-06-13 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] console based calendar
  42. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Superman Videos
  43. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Superman Videos
  44. 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  45. 2004-06-12 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  46. 2004-06-12 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: The proper MSFT security procedure?] (fwd)
  47. 2004-06-12 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  48. 2004-06-12 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  49. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Your Linux Today Security Letter for June 11, 2004 [reply-ad83-1808-2f6b114cd7-at-nl.internet.com]
  50. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: GNU Common C++ 1.2.0 and the patented todo tatoo... [dyfet-at-ostel.com]
  51. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: I'll be at the meeting tonight
  52. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  53. 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  54. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  55. 2004-06-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  56. 2004-06-11 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  57. 2004-06-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  58. 2004-06-11 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Subject: [hangout] FYI: SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  59. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website.
  60. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS website.
  61. 2004-06-11 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  62. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  63. 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  64. 2004-06-10 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP - CGI - Mod_Perl Web Developer (onsite), United States, NY, New York City [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  65. 2004-06-10 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] God Bless America.
  66. 2004-06-10 Derrick Lewis <lewisdj-at-bc.edu> Re: [hangout] Firm commitment to Princeton?
  67. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: More from "News"day
  68. 2004-06-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [nylxs-announce] GNU/Linux Scene Calender for Today
  69. 2004-06-10 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs
  70. 2004-06-09 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10,
  71. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7
  72. 2004-06-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] more from alt.sports.basebase.ny-mets: Michael Moore
  73. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m
  74. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  75. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  76. 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe
  77. 2004-06-09 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  78. 2004-06-09 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Chaverware
  79. 2004-06-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware
  80. 2004-06-09 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Chaverware
  81. 2004-06-09 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Chaverware
  82. 2004-06-09 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] P2P loses in Europe
  83. 2004-06-08 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  84. 2004-06-08 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: REVISED: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 8, 2004.]
  85. 2004-06-08 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited
  86. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The Source : OpenBSD revisited
  87. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] The gift economy and free software
  88. 2004-06-08 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] 'Open-source' Solaris draws lukewarm response
  89. 2004-06-07 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  90. 2004-06-07 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  91. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Required Perl Expert (onsite), United States, Delaware, Newark [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  92. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] More Cool People Needed (onsite), United States, MA, Waltham [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  93. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  94. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  95. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] CPU-based security for Windows XP, Red Hat Linux coming
  96. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Jobs Jobs
  97. 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7
  98. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Announcement / Thurs, June 10, 2004 7:00pm - 11:00p m
  99. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Free Expo Pass for LinuxWorld, the industry's leading event
  100. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  101. 2004-06-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  102. 2004-06-07 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  103. 2004-06-07 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  104. 2004-06-07 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] reposting
  105. 2004-06-07 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] LAMP / CGI / mod_perl expert (telecommute), United States, n/a, n/a [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  106. 2004-06-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Nite
  107. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] How NOT to lodge a compalint
  108. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Upcoming hearings/events from the Committee on Technology in Government, New York City Council as of JUNE 6, 2004. [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us]
  109. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] And other interesting places ....
  110. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Good place to send a spare $20
  111. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  112. 2004-06-06 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  113. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Old New I just want to get in the archives
  114. 2004-06-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [nylxs-announce] Weekly NYLXS Announcments [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com]
  115. 2004-06-05 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Microsoft Patents
  116. 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Patents
  117. 2004-06-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun releasing code
  118. 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  119. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  120. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  121. 2004-06-04 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  122. 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  123. 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Deadline Demo CD
  124. 2004-06-04 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650
  125. 2004-06-04 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  126. 2004-06-04 Peter Siegel <psiegel-at-copper.net> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  127. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  128. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  129. 2004-06-04 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  130. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] SUSe 8.2 with D-Link AirXpert DWL-AG650
  131. 2004-06-04 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl/Mason Web software developer (onsite), United States, NY, Park Slope, Brooklyn]
  132. 2004-06-04 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Driers from Wifi cards?
  133. 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  134. 2004-06-03 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  135. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Starting Over in 2004
  136. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  137. 2004-06-03 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  138. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> FW: [hangout] New Event for NYLXS Membership
  139. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  140. 2004-06-03 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  141. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  142. 2004-06-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: Linux Grows in Popularity
  143. 2004-06-02 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: Linux Journal Weekly Newsletter -- June 2 [html-at-ssc.com]
  144. 2004-06-02 Walt Costanza <wjc-at-retsambew.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  145. 2004-06-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Sun's Java Desktop System 2 is No Improvement
  146. 2004-06-02 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Weird Software License
  147. 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  148. 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Weird Software License
  149. 2004-06-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  150. 2004-06-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] my toshiba drive
  151. 2004-06-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  152. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  153. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  154. 2004-06-30 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  155. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  156. 2004-06-30 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  157. 2004-06-30 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Defending Small Schools
  158. 2004-06-30 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  159. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  160. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  161. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  162. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  163. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  164. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  165. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  166. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  167. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  168. 2004-06-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  169. 2004-06-30 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Spam Assasin is a COMPLETE Piece of ...
  170. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Linux Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NJ, Somerset [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  171. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  172. 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  173. 2004-06-29 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  174. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  175. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] AMERICAN KIDS LOSING EDUCATION BATTLE
  176. 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled
  177. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] German Government Desktop Unveiled
  178. 2004-06-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] debian-installer
  179. 2004-06-29 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] debian-installer
  180. 2004-06-29 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva times and places
  181. 2004-06-29 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] debian-installer
  182. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux job for Lucas Films -
  183. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux
  184. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Movie
  185. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  186. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  187. 2004-06-28 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] Movie
  188. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP Installer Kit for Linux
  189. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] HP rolls out new desktop, workstations
  190. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  191. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  192. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D
  193. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 D ays
  194. 2004-06-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng
  195. 2004-06-28 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] (fwd) [alois-at-astro.ch: Re: Redhat support experience]
  196. 2004-06-28 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Bar Mitzvah
  197. 2004-06-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 2 Days and counti ng
  198. 2004-06-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] MS - Security built inside:
  199. 2004-06-27 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Grep
  200. 2004-06-27 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] So yah want to see a ballgame from MLB?
  201. 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Bar Mitzva
  202. 2004-06-27 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] next weekend
  203. 2004-06-27 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Bar Mitzva
  204. 2004-06-26 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed
  205. 2004-06-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle
  206. 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Test
  207. 2004-06-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Test
  208. 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: RHCA
  209. 2004-06-25 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] toshiba drive
  210. 2004-06-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Mac OS X security myth exposed
  211. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Copyright wars on again
  212. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Jihad
  213. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tony Wiener - Eat your heart out - GNU/Linux in government
  214. 2004-06-25 From: "Ruben I Safir - Secretary NYLXS" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux Retailer opens in Canada
  215. 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  216. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  217. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: A LITTLE QUOTE FROM MY SISTER (REGARDING THE BUSH ADMINISTRAT
  218. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] JPEG Legal Battle
  219. 2004-06-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Employment HTML Developer
  220. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays
  221. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  222. 2004-06-24 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D
  223. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware 10 is released!
  224. 2004-06-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Freedom-IT Planning Meeting Tues June 29, 2004
  225. 2004-06-23 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays and counti ng
  226. 2004-06-23 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 D ays
  227. 2004-06-23 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng
  228. 2004-06-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Software Engineer (onsite), United States, NY, New York]
  229. 2004-06-22 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Perl Programmer, United States, CT, Stamford [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  230. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations - 8 Days and counti ng
  231. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Initiative - June 24, 2004 6:45pm
  232. 2004-06-22 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-nyc.rr.com> RE: [hangout] Large Plans for Linux at Marist College
  233. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] infringement Festival - the LINUX of theatre
  234. 2004-06-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Desktop Linux: Sun Shines
  235. 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  236. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Team page on SoftwareFreedomDay.org
  237. 2004-06-21 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] distro investigation for upcoming technight
  238. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Suse 9.1 Personal ISOs are available online...
  239. 2004-06-21 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FAT Patent Review May Threaten Linux Foundation
  240. 2004-06-20 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Night - Paul Robert
  241. 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail
  242. 2004-06-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Music DRM
  243. 2004-06-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Re: your mail
  244. 2004-06-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: your mail
  245. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  246. 2004-06-18 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Educational Resource for Educational IT
  247. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Software Freedom Day Video Clip Presentations
  248. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Ontario's school system gives StarOffice a shot
  249. 2004-06-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] maildir to cyrus
  250. 2004-06-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Putting together PDF files
  251. 2004-06-18 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  252. 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Calander:
  253. 2004-06-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] In Service Program
  254. 2004-06-17 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Free Software Publishing
  255. 2004-06-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Publisher Partnership Invitation
  256. 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  257. 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] U.S. House subcommittee approves spyware bill
  258. 2004-06-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  259. 2004-06-17 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  260. 2004-06-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Gene Wilder once said it best
  261. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [thomas-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: kernel (SuSE-SA:2004:017)]
  262. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [draht-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] Discontinued SUSE Linux Distributions]
  263. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  264. 2004-06-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Articles on gconf and Sun Business start with FS
  265. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  266. 2004-06-16 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  267. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  268. 2004-06-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  269. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  270. 2004-06-16 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).
  271. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  272. 2004-06-18 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com>
  273. 2004-06-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] YDL progress (or lack thereof).

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