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DATE 2006-05-01

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Key: archive Value: 2006-05-01

Key: id Value: 531267

MESSAGE
DATE 2006-05-24
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [rick@linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
From owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Wed May 24 02:42:12 2006
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Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 02:42:07 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com, rms-at-gnu.org
Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
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----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen -----

X-Original-To: balug-talk-at-lists.balug.org
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 23:37:29 -0700
From: Rick Moen
To: balug-talk-at-lists.balug.org
In-Reply-To: <20060524050038.GH28578-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com>
X-Mas: Bah humbug.
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Subject: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The
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Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com):

> > Hi, Ruben. I'm not quite sure what this outburst had to do with the
> > preceding conversation?
> >
>
> The reference was to the statements, as I understood them, that no
> Open Source advocates publically said that their software freedom was
> any less important to them than the Free Software Advocates.

I'm quadruply confused.

1. Nobody made the claim you cite. It seems drearily
bespoke-constructed (perhaps accidentally) to be easily knocked down.

2. You seem to be referring to the film "Revolution OS", but I can't
remember the speech you're referring to (though I appear in it, in a
couple of places), let alone what it's supposed to show about Mr.
Augustin, not to mention anyone else.

3. Nor do you quote it (nor the same purported speech from Bruce
Perens), nor can I seem to find any reference on the Web.

4. Most of all, your post seems a complete and utter non sequitur to
_mine_, which it partially quoted and purported to respond to.

At least Augustin is a _little_ more relevant a person to cite in
relation to OSI than the prior rather pathetic and inaccurate reference
to Torvalds: Although Augustin never has held any post at OSI to my
knowledge, he at least was one of those attending the restaurant meeting
in Silicon Valley at which the group was formed.


> I'm not certain if the very intelligent people who promote the lines
> of reasoning such as we witnessed by "The Linux Journal" editors
> editorial from February, the one I sent at the start of this thread,
> fully comprehend just how much damage they are doing to their own self
> interests for the comfort of a short term solution.

Ah yes, Nick's troll "rant". I had a draft of the note I wrote after
after giggling for a good long while at how many places he screwed up
in that screed. I'm not going to send it because it's too long, and
takes _way_ too long to reach the main point, which is that his "rant"
is either clueless about licensing strategy or, in the alternative, is
empty sophistry because of that omission.

(Initially, I didn't mind it being overlong: If Nick's badly written
rant made me suffer, I'm going to make him suffer.) But I'll have to
write something shorter and more pointed if sending it to a magazine.

But here it is, logorrhoea and all:



To: ljeditor-at-ssc.com

Dear Nick:

Thank you for taking the reins of _Linux Journal_. It's good to see you
aboard, and I'll be looking forward to seeing your work.

February's spirited /etc/rant piece seems to have been written to provoke,
deliberately insulting epithets and all -- a fine art form in itself, I
suppose. I just sincerely hope you were _deliberately_ trolling. This
mail is thus intended as, pardon the phrase, a reality check.

Item: Why label eschewing of proprietary Java toolchains (Sun's,
IBM's, BEA's, or others') as motivated by "fear"? Surely you haven't
been a Linux user for a decade-plus without encountering other reasons
for preferring open source / free software?

Item: Along the sane lines, you speak of schizophrenia and other forms
of damaged sanity in (unnamed) "free/open-source advocates".[1] This is
just in paragraph two, and you're already wildly calling people names,
and skirting the libel laws mostly by failing to mention names.

Item: What is the relevance to your assertion about "fear" of Evans
Data Corporation's claim about the number of Eclipse developers on
Linux, especially since Eclipse doesn't require a proprietary JRE?

Item: Why do you imply that people eschewing proprietary JREs are
merely "afraid" of being asked to pay a "licence fee", especially since
you are well aware that open source has ultimately roughly zero to do
with avoiding "licence fees", and has much more serious concerns?

Item: Why do you posit that (unnamed) Linux open source people would
consider Qt "evil", when Qt has famously been available under an open
source licence for many years?

Item: Why do you assert that anyone developing proprietary applications
(which you refer to by the vague term "closed source") must pay licence
fees to Trolltech, when a rudimentary understanding of licences and
copyright law will reveal that this is incorrect as stated (regardless
of what Trolltech AS might state)?

Item: Why do you imply that open source advocates would necessarily and
everywhere prefer LGPLed GTK+ over GPLed Qt, when that plainly is not
the case?

Item: Why would you refer to the LGPL licensing of GTK+ as permitting
"exploiting" that codebase's developers, when it was the latter's
strategically considered choice? Do you think those developers are
idiots? Or perhaps insane? I would suggest, rather, that they were
shrewdly picking a licence for a particular key component that they
wished to see very widely adopted, with an eye towards longer-term
licence-strategy goals for other components.

If you honestly have not considered the notion of licence _strategy_,
that might be a new thought for you. E.g., Free Software Foundation
urged the Xiph.org authors of the Vorbis codec (for .ogg sound files) to
change their licensing from GPL to LGPL to increase .ogg adoption, as a
means of encouraging wider use of that sound format instead of the
patent-encumbered MP3 one.

Item: Why would you say the GNU General Public Licence embodies "the
spirit of open source", when even FSF publishes software works under
other licences as well?

Item: Why would you mischaracterise the GNU GPL as requiring
publication of one's code if "you publish software that integrates
someone else's publicly available [GPLed] work", when you're surely well
aware that many means of integration create no such obligation?

Item: Why would you erroneously state that Nvidia, Inc. "violates the
GPL" (i.e., violates third-party copyrights of GPLed work authors)
"because it keeps some of its Linux kernel driver code secret", when
surely you're aware that such copyright violation requires (1)
redistribution, not merely creation, of (2) a work derivative of the
other authors' work (which you've not shown to be the case, here)?

Item: Why do you state that using GTK+ in accordance with its licence
is the same thing as using the Linux kernel in a way that (per you)
violates its licence (i.e., using it with Nvidia kernel modules)?

Item: Why would you assert that GCJ is "nearly useless" when, among
other things, it runs Eclipse, why you asserted in paragraph three to be
the preferred development environment of the majority of developers on
Linux?

Item: Why, after all of this, do you close with a reference to Torvalds
stating a strong preference for current KDE over current GNOME, when his
reasons had nothing at all to do with licensing, when in fact both
desktop suites themselves are identically licensed under the GNU GPL
(only their toolkits being under diverse open-source licences),
when either one could have sucked or not under any licence at all, and
when Torvalds expressed _no_ opinion about the toolkits where (fairly
minor) licensing differences can be found? You seem to be attempting to
contrast his view with that of Icaza, and yet Icaza's reasons for
touting LGPL's advantages on some components are well known, and are
strategic, exactly the same as those of the Xiph.org developers.

Item: Why do you laud Torvalds's opinion about desktop suites as
showing that he recognises what has "practical value", impliedly
saying that different views in other circumstances (such as Icaza's)
fail to recognise "practical value"? Are you suggesting that a
strategic approach to software licensing has no practical value?
Twenty-two years of copyleft coding history seems to prove you wrong,
sir.

On the other hand, to accentuate the positive: The one paragraph in
your rant that seems both cogent and informative is the one at the
bottom, that says you're Editor in Chief of Linux Journal. I'm
sincerely glad to hear that, and hope you'll make better use of your
editorial -- or rant -- space in the future.

[1] Just to clarify, I am not personally an "advocate" of that or any
other software or licensing regime, though I have a strong preference
for free software, irrespective of advocacy.

Sincerely,
Rick M.
_______________________________________________
balug-talk mailing list
balug-talk-at-lists.balug.org
http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org

----- End forwarded message -----

--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions

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that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://fairuse.nylxs.com

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
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http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

  1. 2006-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [501techclub-ny] NYU Information Technology Projects
  2. 2006-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: LOVE & MARRIAGE & NEW YORK CITY at The Billie Holiday
  3. 2006-05-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Thursday meeting on open hardware
  4. 2006-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Closing the digital divide near you
  5. 2006-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Media and the Internet: New Opportunity for Freedom or Dark
  6. 2006-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Who neds space tourism?
  7. 2006-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement:
  8. 2006-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Medical Economics
  9. 2006-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Lead Server Technician]
  10. 2006-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] X Bug hunt
  11. 2006-05-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: CareerBuilder.com Job Matches]
  12. 2006-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: Looking fir a unix linux administrator]
  13. 2006-05-09 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  14. 2006-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  15. 2006-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  16. 2006-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] OK - got it...
  17. 2006-05-09 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  18. 2006-05-09 From: "RUL-at-" <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc.politics] WTC Rebuilding #433:Silverstein Accepts Official Offer...
  19. 2006-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc.politics] WTC Rebuilding #433:Silverstein Accepts Official Offer...
  20. 2006-05-10 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  21. 2006-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  22. 2006-05-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  23. 2006-05-10 From: "J.E. Cripps" <cycmn-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  24. 2006-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [Balug-talk] [JOB] Linux Engineer, Walnut Creek]
  25. 2006-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  26. 2006-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Computer Models that work
  27. 2006-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] meeting
  28. 2006-05-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [malmonte-at-searchedp.com: Web Applications Administrator]
  29. 2006-05-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [apetruzzella-at-c3expo.com: June 27th-29th, 2006 in NYC]
  30. 2006-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: E-Update for the Committee on Technology in Government of
  31. 2006-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] XML for Drug Information
  32. 2006-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] IPOD DRM
  33. 2006-05-15 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nylug-announce] Free ticket Giveaway to Ruby on Rails
  34. 2006-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: CareerBuilder.com: DBA Needed in NYC!]
  35. 2006-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-talk] [nylug-job] CUNY Institute for Software Design
  36. 2006-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Non-profit eduction groups
  37. 2006-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: SuitWatch - May 17]
  38. 2006-05-17 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Moving Day Thursday May 18, 2006 6:00PM
  39. 2006-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ssh issues
  40. 2006-05-18 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Reminder: NYLXS Moving Day Thursday May 18, 2006 6:00PM
  41. 2006-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Interesting things on the web - Completely off topic
  42. 2006-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM is Theft
  43. 2006-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  44. 2006-05-19 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  45. 2006-05-19 WWWhatsup <joly-at-dti.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eben Moglen webcast
  46. 2006-05-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  47. 2006-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  48. 2006-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Eben Moglen webcast
  49. 2006-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  50. 2006-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  51. 2006-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Calendar information
  52. 2006-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  53. 2006-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  54. 2006-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux
  55. 2006-05-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [mspitzer-at-gmail.com: Re: [Lisp] Motion: Should worthy projects go unfunded by Google, Lisp-NYC uses last year Google$ to fund one (or more at a fraction of the $4500)]
  56. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  57. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  58. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  59. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  60. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [michael-at-halligan.org: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  61. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  62. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [Fwd: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]]
  63. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  64. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  65. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: [Balug-talk] [Fwd: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]]
  66. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [matt-at-modestolan.com: [Balug-talk] [Fwd: Mail to balug-talk list] Its a sorry day for?The Linux Journal]
  67. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  68. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  69. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  70. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  71. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [michael-at-halligan.org: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  72. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  73. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  74. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [michael-at-halligan.org: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  75. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  76. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  77. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  78. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  79. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  80. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  81. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  82. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [nick-at-zork.net: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  83. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  84. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]
  85. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  86. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal]
  87. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  88. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  89. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Memorial Day Weekend Discounts at the Billie Holiday Theatre]
  90. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [matt-at-modestolan.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  91. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [Fwd: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]]
  92. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  93. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  94. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  95. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  96. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  97. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  98. 2006-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  99. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  100. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  101. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  102. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]]
  103. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Fwd: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]]]
  104. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  105. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  106. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  107. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]]
  108. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  109. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  110. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  111. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a
  112. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a
  113. 2006-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a
  114. 2006-05-24 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nylug-announce] TOMORROW! NYLUG May Volunteer Mtg (5/25 &
  115. 2006-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: CareerBuilder.com Job Matches]
  116. 2006-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a
  117. 2006-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nylug-announce] TOMORROW! NYLUG May Volunteer Mtg (5/25 & 5/30): NYLUG on The NY Linux Users Group
  118. 2006-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl Job
  119. 2006-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [Lisp] Motion: Should worthy projects go unfunded by Google,
  120. 2006-05-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] So you want to live in New York?
  121. 2006-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A few important NYLXS docs found
  122. 2006-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A few important NYLXS docs found
  123. 2006-05-24 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  124. 2006-05-23 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  125. 2006-05-22 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux
  126. 2006-05-21 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux
  127. 2006-05-24 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  128. 2006-05-23 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [Fwd: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The?Linux?Journal]]
  129. 2006-05-20 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  130. 2006-05-20 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Its a sorry day for The Linux Journal
  131. 2006-05-24 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  132. 2006-05-24 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]
  133. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]]]
  134. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]]]
  135. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-talk] TOMORROW! NYLUG May Volunteer Mtg (5/25 &
  136. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Meeting tomorrow with a side of education initatives
  137. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] RE: nylug-talk Digest, Vol 34, Issue 27
  138. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Passover Party
  139. 2006-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] World Events
  140. 2006-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cool Tech coming
  141. 2006-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The End of Democracy according to the NY Times (DRM is Theft)
  142. 2006-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Domestic Survailence
  143. 2006-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: nylug meeting
  144. 2006-05-29 Richard Stallman <rms-at-gnu.org> Re: [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [Balug-talk] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its a sorry day for The Linux?Journal]]
  145. 2006-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] X11 Tutorial
  146. 2006-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] X11 Tutorial
  147. 2006-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sun Economic collapse
  148. 2006-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Income Verisfication Try this

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