|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
|From lest-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Tue Jul 8 01:50:53 2008
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 01:50:48 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
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On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 11:29:43PM -0400, Ronny Abraham wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > That market is the lynch pin to getting free software product out is
> > axiomatic, and between the monopolistic effort of MS and their marketing
> > Corel had ZERO change. I really don't want to argue if marketing is
> > the key issue. If you don't think that marketing and anti-competitive
> > activities is the core reason for the dominance of the MS OS, I just
> > chuck you up to being a fruit loop, no offense intended, and I'll waste time
> > in a more productive fashion.
> I think of myself more as Raisin Bran man.
> Corel had a crappy product. Marketing only takes you so far. At the
> end of the day the thing you are promoting has to work. If not well,
> at least well enough. After that, people don't feel like taking a
> chance on something new.
Corel screw up their target market by using a lot of non-free software in their crap and then failing to market it. The product was fine. It was down right impressive.
> The thing I am saying is, if you want Linux to be adopted, you have to
> find a service that other providers aren't covering.
> In essence my points are that you must have:
> a) everything a user expects with what he currently has
> b) do it better
> c) something he needs that he doesn't have.
Yeah, those points are death to any product. You do not give customers what
they want, you drive a new business by exceding their expectations and
teaching them what they want.
This is marketing and PR 1.0
You create markets with advertising, and public realtions.
> > And that gets you NOTHING. Did you not read about the case history of Borland?
> > OS2 Warp, GNU/Linux, Netscape, or for that matter the inventor of the TV, Amstrong,
> > Vitagraph, and the Betamax?
> You really don't like to stick with the simple do you?
> Doing a google search for "vitagraph" I saw the number "1897" and
> decided anything that far back is irrelevent to me.
Well it shouldn't be. They were one of the first motion picture companies
and were technologically advanced, far more than anyone else, with advanced
animation and SOUND and COLOR....in the 1920's
And they forgot to get themselves a theater chain and was essentially
locked out of business and the capital markets needed to complete, sealing
the end to Brooklyn's movie industry, not to mention the rest of NY and
Warner Bros and MGM locked up theater chains and continues to technologically
inferior film for another decade.
> The inventor of the TV was a moron when he let RCA stooges into his
> lab. So let's scratch that off the list also, shall we? I'm not
> going to debate someone who obviously screwed up.
No, I won't. Its a perfect example of what happens to most products that
are superior.... NOTHING.
Did you ever see the film Tucker?
> Betamax vs. VHS. After reading the wiki pages, it strikes me that
> ultimately this was a case where the difference in price and quality
> wasn't close enough for someone who makes 15$ an hour to put the money
> down. Although the wiki pages go on and on about it being a market
> case, they don't provide a whole lot of info on it.
Its a wiki, go to a business library and look it up. The VHS recorders
where dumped on the market below costs, and the porn industry kick
started the VHS standard.
> One line in the page stood out "This kind of lock-in and path
> dependence is exactly what economists point out as the Betamax weak
> link" This is such crap that I can only laugh. If that was true, why
> the hell do people stick with MS Toilet Paper, MS Word, MS
> DoEverythingForYou ?
> GNU/Linux wars are still going on. In fact, the whole point of this
> discussion is to make sure it gets on top.
> OS2. OK, so I won't pretend I have hard facts. But in conversation I
> had with a cynical guy who used to work at IBM, it chalked up to
> "management didn't take the personal computer seriously enough to get
> this moving fast enough". That's all I know, and I'm sticking with
> it. I will point out, that people stick with the brand name.
Bullshit. IBM invented the market. They just didn't care to compete after they
had the Department of Justice kick them around but good.
> Had IBM
> aggressively pushed out a real product for the PC, businesses would
> have stuck with that instead of DOS. They didn't, so the businesses
> used DOS, got their apps in DOS, and didn't feel like switching.
> Which is the point I've been making all along. People don't like
> Next time you bring up examples, please just bring up one OK?
What? Sometimes you are a little weird.
> >> As for maintenance problems, that's what offices pay tech drones for.
> >> People can handle a crash or two.
> > No we don't.
> Yes, they can. Because you get paid whether the system goes down or
No, when my system craps out patients DIE DIE DIE.
Gee, you think that would be incentive. Or to what 500 million dollars of
arbitrage go past you on the Chicago exchange?
Some businesses actually do something.
> Furthermore, as a drone, upper management could care less if you
> feel like committing suicide, so long as you do it on your own time.
> I of course, care very much, which is why I would like to see all
> office drones being given Linux.
> >> It's regular system failure that
> >> makes them run screaming for another operating system.
> > Evidently not since that continues to plague all Microsoft OS's. Neither does viruses,
> > spyware, worms, spam exploits, security breaches and more.
> when I say regular system failure, I mean "vista-level" failure.
> Which is what is currently NOT happening with XP or even 98.
> > That's only partly true. And it continues to be more true today then ever.
> > They insisted on making the OS compatable to Windows. That was the big mistake. Instead
> > of buying and devloping their own brand loyalty and market, they basically just helped MS
> > market Windows and become looked at as an also ran. BIG MISTAKE.
> This is where you and I differ. If Linux is going to be accepted,
> every single damn app that runs on windows is going to have to run on
That's frankly crap. I've been listening to that crap now for a decade. I've
seen that crap fail over and over again. There is no historical, business or
any hard basis for this at all. Furthmore, I challenge you to show me a
business theory that can prove that, and even more importantly, prove to me
that it can be done? How can it be done? MS changes their API's and code
secretly with the sole intent to PREVENT THAT. So how are you going to do that?
The only way for any business to succeed is to INOVATE and create a NEW MARKET,
especially when competing against a legal monolopy which would also break
any law, take any action, pursue in court any competitor, in order to crush them
and maintain their monopoly.
> I believe this so much, that the second I get a chance I'm
> going to start donating time to WINE.
I'd have to be more insulting then I care to be to answer that. What can be
said? This has been tried for a decade and failed. Give your money to
save the whales instead.
> > - I need to get back to the C++ workshops and you guys aren't helping ;)
> What's the story with these workshops? Is it via email? Or are you
> hosting them in your house? I'm a bit confused here.
You haven't seen them?
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."
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