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DATE 2008-07-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2008-07-08
FROM From: "Ronny Abraham"
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
From lest-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Tue Jul 8 15:18:33 2008
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:18:04 -0400
From: "Ronny Abraham"
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
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On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Corel screw up their target market by using a lot of non-free software in their crap and then failing to market it. The product was fine. It was down right impressive.

Ruben, I have not used the Corel office suite. I don't need to.
Because I know how fast Java apps at the time worked. But I like to
think of myself as fair. So I'll tell you what, if you manage to get
the Corel Beta of the time running at good clip on an x386 machine
then I'll concede the entire argument. Not a 486 or a 586, but a 386.
Because that is what most of the office workers were typing on.

> Yeah, those points are death to any product. You do not give customers what
> they want, you drive a new business by exceding their expectations and
> teaching them what they want.
>
> This is marketing and PR 1.0
>
> You create markets with advertising, and public realtions.

So according to this reasoning, products don't fail because they don't
deliver, they only fail because there wasn't enough PR.

Did it ever occur to you that the PR people are the ones who want you
to believe that because they like having jobs?


> Did you ever see the film Tucker?

No, but it's probably a better example than Rockefeller.


> Its a wiki, go to a business library and look it up.

Not happening. I simply don't care enough to go to a library and read
a book on a subject in order to understand a point you are making. If
you want to make a point to me, you have to do more of the work than
say "go to a library".

> Bullshit. IBM invented the market. They just didn't care to compete after they
> had the Department of Justice kick them around but good.

Fair enough. Like I said, I don't have hard facts in that case, so
you can take it for what it's worth.

> What? Sometimes you are a little weird.

Rubin, if you gave me one or two examples, then sure, I'd put out the
time to understand it. Especially if I thought that it would improve
my general knowledge. But if you hand me five examples to one
argument, I am simply not going to hunt down every one of them. I am
not a historian, I am not a lawyer. I am totally uninterested in
going to a library to read a book to better comprehend some obscure
point being made in a conversation that probably isn't going to change
anyone's opinion. My point was, give me one or two counterexamples
that illustrate what you are trying to say. This isn't a "two men
enter, one man leaves" argument. This is about how we can best
utilize our time. Given that the entire GNU/Linux enterprise is
successful because people like you and me devote our time, I think
that's actually an important question.

Now the reason I am actually arguing this with you is very simple. I
think and feel, very very strongly that "marketing is everything" is
total and complete bullshit. I have heard Democrats make that
argument, I have heard Republicans make that argument. I have heard
the guys from Sun make that argument too. And the truth is, marketing
definitely has impact. But it is not even close to everything.

Distribution is a factor
Cost of risk vs. reward is a factor.
Ease of use is a factor
Convenience in getting it up and running is a factor
Need is a factor.
Stabilitity is a factor.
Learning curve is a factor

Now Linux is very good, at the present time, in filling some of these
requirements. It is very stable, and thanks to the fast internet
connections it's distribution is fantastic, but regarding all the
other points, it is simply NOT THAT GREAT.

>
> No, when my system craps out patients DIE DIE DIE.
>
> Gee, you think that would be incentive. Or to what 500 million dollars of
> arbitrage go past you on the Chicago exchange?
>
> Some businesses actually do something.

Businesses are run by people. People want to cover their ass. People
stick with a brand because it's worked "well enough" as far as they
are concerned ... I can't believe I'm actually arguing over something
this obvious.

this is ridiculous.

You know what Ruben? If you really believe everything you are saying,
then why don't you stop bitching about it, and take courses in
marketing and PR, and then do something about it? You are one of the
smartest guys I know, you can probably be successful at anything you
like, so just do it. You're effectively telling me, that he who
controls PR controls the world, so go for it. If it's as important
and certain as you make it out to be, there shouldn't be any risk
whatsoever in moving to ad agency right?

After all, if marketing is everything, then anyone who is good at it
will make the company a bundle of cash right? Given that you are a
very smart and capable man, you should be able to master it fairly
quickly. Therefore, you should be able, with a minimum of effort and
almost no risk whatsoever be able to switch jobs and make a bundle.
So do it.

But of course, marketing isn't everything. PR is not everything.
Being able to talk your way is not always going to cut it. If you
tried that you'd be risking quite a lot which means you'll never do
it. Because, you are, in fact, a smart guy and not an idiot.

> The only way for any business to succeed is to INOVATE and create a NEW MARKET,
> especially when competing against a legal monolopy which would also break
> any law, take any action, pursue in court any competitor, in order to crush them
> and maintain their monopoly.

If what you said was true, then Ford wouldn't be about to go bankrupt,
and the Japanese wouldn't be taking over the auto industry.

>
>
>> I believe this so much, that the second I get a chance I'm
>> going to start donating time to WINE.
>>
>
> I'd have to be more insulting then I care to be to answer that. What can be
> said? This has been tried for a decade and failed.

I'm a sucker for a lost cause.

> You haven't seen them?

No, where can I find them? I'm very interested.

  1. 2008-07-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C programming Workshop part II
  2. 2008-07-01 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Need to get rid of a whole bunch of programming
  3. 2008-07-01 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Need to get rid of a whole bunch of programming
  4. 2008-07-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Need to get rid of a whole bunch of programming books. TALK ABOUT FREE SOFTWARE!!!
  5. 2008-07-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Gates: Windows really sucks
  6. 2008-07-01 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Need to get rid of a whole bunch of programming
  7. 2008-07-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [david-at-thekramers.net: Fedora 9 X dual screen problems]
  8. 2008-07-02 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Need to get rid of a whole bunch of programming
  9. 2008-07-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2 (section 2.1)
  10. 2008-07-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2.1
  11. 2008-07-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] July 4th
  12. 2008-07-03 Shoshana Rivka Safir <shani-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Post high school jobs or internships?
  13. 2008-07-03 meg7-at-nyu.edu Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] July 4th
  14. 2008-07-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] July 4th
  15. 2008-07-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] July 4th
  16. 2008-07-03 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Post high school jobs or internships?
  17. 2008-07-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2.3
  18. 2008-07-03 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Post high school jobs or internships?
  19. 2008-07-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [alan-at-patriot.net: [Dclug] Our Fourth Amendment]
  20. 2008-07-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] 4th of July Plans
  21. 2008-07-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Workshops
  22. 2008-07-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Might be time for a visit to Congress again
  23. 2008-07-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  24. 2008-07-05 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Workshops
  25. 2008-07-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Workshops
  26. 2008-07-06 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  27. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: Linux kernel (SUSE-SA:2008:031)]
  28. 2008-07-07 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  29. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: Linux kernel (SUSE-SA:2008:032)]
  30. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  31. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  32. 2008-07-07 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  33. 2008-07-07 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  34. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  35. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  36. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  37. 2008-07-07 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  38. 2008-07-07 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  39. 2008-07-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  40. 2008-07-07 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  41. 2008-07-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Post high school jobs or internships?
  42. 2008-07-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  43. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Manhattan this Friday, 7/11]
  44. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  45. 2008-07-07 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  46. 2008-07-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  47. 2008-07-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  48. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  49. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  50. 2008-07-08 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  51. 2008-07-08 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  52. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  53. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  54. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  55. 2008-07-08 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  56. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Maybe its because lindows just sucked
  57. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS/GNU
  58. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] While we're on this topic
  59. 2008-07-08 From: "Tameek" <tameek-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Manhattan this Friday, 7/11]
  60. 2008-07-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Manhattan this Friday, 7/11]
  61. 2008-07-09 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Manhattan this
  62. 2008-07-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest this weekend?
  63. 2008-07-09 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest this weekend?
  64. 2008-07-09 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Post high school jobs or internships?
  65. 2008-07-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest this weekend?
  66. 2008-07-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Linux INSTALLFEST/HACKFEST NYC Local
  67. 2008-07-12 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] "Gates of Vienna" blog averts DMCA prosecution
  68. 2008-07-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux on the desktop - it's come a long way, but is it there yet?
  69. 2008-07-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] so much for Apples Free Software pitch
  70. 2008-07-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  71. 2008-07-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  72. 2008-07-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2.2
  73. 2008-07-18 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [BrooklynFreeCycle] offer---- old library card catalog file cabinet
  74. 2008-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HAckfest/Installfest
  75. 2008-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] HAckfest/Installfest
  76. 2008-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hackfest/Installfest
  77. 2008-07-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tax Exempy Status
  78. 2008-07-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Hackfest Tomorrow
  79. 2008-07-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Hackfest
  80. 2008-07-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [notification+zjaayj4y-at-facebookmail.com: "Ted & Amy Supper Club (NYC)" sent you a message on Facebook...]
  81. 2008-07-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2.2.3
  82. 2008-07-22 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [notification+zjaayj4y-at-facebookmail.com: "Ted & Amy Supper Club (NYC)" sent you a message on Facebook...]
  83. 2008-07-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [notification+zjaayj4y-at-facebookmail.com: "Ted & Amy Supper Club (NYC)" sent you a message on Facebook...]
  84. 2008-07-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Programming Workshop
  85. 2008-07-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [dalmolin-at-e-cology.ca: [Hardhats] COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS: Promoting Health IT Hearing]
  86. 2008-07-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop 2.3.4
  87. 2008-07-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Dell GNU Systems
  88. 2008-07-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details]
  89. 2008-07-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details
  90. 2008-07-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details
  91. 2008-07-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Radio Broadcasting
  92. 2008-07-25 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details]
  93. 2008-07-25 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [rick-at-linuxmafia.com: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details]
  94. 2008-07-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [conspire] DNS vulnerability details
  95. 2008-07-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  96. 2008-07-26 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  97. 2008-07-26 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  98. 2008-07-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  99. 2008-07-27 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  100. 2008-07-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  101. 2008-07-27 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  102. 2008-07-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] unionfs
  103. 2008-07-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Fort Greene Friday, 8/1]
  104. 2008-07-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Volunteer4-at-JohnMcCain.com: McCain Campaign Internships]
  105. 2008-07-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  106. 2008-07-30 From: <tameek-at-gmail.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  107. 2008-07-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  108. 2008-07-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  109. 2008-07-30 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  110. 2008-07-30 From: <tameek-at-gmail.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  111. 2008-07-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  112. 2008-07-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  113. 2008-07-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  114. 2008-07-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  115. 2008-07-30 From: <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] August Plans
  116. 2008-07-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  117. 2008-07-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] KDE really sucks
  118. 2008-07-31 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] KDE really sucks
  119. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  120. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  121. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] KDE really sucks
  122. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] KDE really sucks
  123. 2008-07-31 From: "Stan Davenport" <stan-at-Etrtechcenter.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben,Opening On Long Island Near Hicksville RR Linix Developer Any
  124. 2008-07-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] KDE really sucks
  125. 2008-07-31 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  126. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  127. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  128. 2008-07-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  129. 2008-07-31 From: <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  130. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  131. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  132. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  133. 2008-07-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc
  134. 2008-07-31 From: <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time to trash the eeepc

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