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DATE 2010-01-01

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Key: archive Value: 2010-01-01

Key: id Value: 539621

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-01-23
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Sat Jan 23 20:54:43 2010
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Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 20:56:37 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
Message-ID: <20100124015636.GA3767-at-panix.com>
References: <20100124003339.GG29226-at-panix.com>
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On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 08:54:06PM -0500, Paul Charles Leddy wrote:
> Watch "Arguing the World", the movie.
>
> Good lead, thanks.
>
> Who was dumb enough to announce the death of neoconservatism? It rules
> the world. Duh.
>

I'll see you at Technight tomoorrow

Ruben

> On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gee - I've been right here all along..
> >
> > http://www.newsweek.com/id/232053
> >
> > The Return of the Neocons
> > Neoconservatism was once deemed dead?'Buried in the sands of Iraq.'
> > But it persists, not just as the de facto foreign-policy plank of the
> > Republican Party but, its proponents assert, in Obama's unapologetic
> > embrace of American military might.
> >
> > By David Margolick | NEWSWEEK
> >
> > Published Jan 22, 2010
> >
> > From the magazine issue dated Feb 1, 2010
> >
> > For all his eminence?or maybe because of it?the funeral for
> > Irving Kristol this past September was an understated affair. Some
> > thought Dick Cheney might show up, but neither he nor any other
> > Republican leader did; it seemed almost ungrateful, given Kristol's
> > extraordinary contribution to the GOP?how he'd brought intellectual
> > legitimacy and heft to what he himself had once called "the stupid
> > party." None of the Republican congressional leadership was there, nor
> > any of the would-be candidates for 2012?not even Sarah Palin, whom
> > Kristol's ubiquitous son, Bill, had helped turn into a political
> > phenomenon.
> >
> > The assemblage of about 200 people wasn't exactly small, but in the
> > gargantuan sanctuary of Adas Israel Congregation, built at a
> > time?1951?when American Jews of Irving Kristol's generation
> > wanted to proclaim they'd finally arrived and planned to stick around
> > awhile, it was dwarfed by its surroundings; the burgundy back benches
> > were empty. Adas Israel is Washington's most powerful Conservative
> > congregation, the one to which every Israeli ambassador to the United
> > States in history has belonged. Instead of the usual parade of celebrity
> > eulogists, though, only two people?the rabbi and Bill
> > Kristol?spoke, and briefly at that. In 40 minutes or so it was over.
> >
> > But the strength of neoconservatism, the intellectual and political
> > "persuasion" (as he once called it) that Irving Kristol launched and
> > led, has never been in its numbers but in its firepower and ferocity.
> > And had the elder Kristol?whose shrouded coffin sat inconspicuously
> > below the stage, nestled between the American and Israeli flags?been
> > able to survey the crowd, he'd have been pleased. For filling the pews
> > were his progeny, not just biological but intellectual, and they were an
> > impressive lot.
> >
> > They came from the publications that neoconservatives either run, like
> > Bill Kristol's Weekly Standard, or work for, like The Washington Post
> > and The Wall Street Journal. Others came from the think tanks where
> > neocons congregate, particularly the American Enterprise Institute
> > (AEI). There were faces from the Iraq War, with which the neocons are
> > inextricably linked, like former deputy secretary of defense Paul
> > Wolfowitz (making a rare public appearance) and the former civilian
> > administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer. Charles Krauthammer, the impassioned
> > and highly influential neoconservative columnist at The Washington Post,
> > and the political scientist Francis Fukuyama (a rare lapsed and
> > repentant neocon) hadn't spoken to each other for several years?ever
> > since Fukuyama had taken exception to the roseate view of the Iraq War
> > Krauthammer had offered in the American Enterprise Institute's 2004
> > Irving Kristol Lecture?but Kristol's death had briefly brought them
> > back together, albeit in different parts of the synagogue. The more
> > traditional wing of the Republican Party, the one the neocons had
> > arguably routed, also paid homage: George Will, who'd come to view the
> > Iraq War as an enormous mistake, took his seat respectfully. In his
> > uncharacteristically apolitical, even gentle, eulogy, Bill Kristol
> > couldn't help but gloat over the proliferation of neocons: "scores,
> > legions?hordes they must seem to those who disapprove of them," he
> > said.
> >
> > Like Bill Kristol, some of those on hand had inherited their right-wing
> > beliefs rather than adopted them (as Irving Kristol, a longtime
> > Democrat, once had). Technically, there is nothing "neo" about
> > conservatives like Robert Kagan, the historian and another Washington
> > Post columnist, or John Podhoretz, the editor of Commentary; each is a
> > son of one of neoconservatism's founding fathers. Indeed, no strain in
> > American politics is so dynastic. It is akin to the right-wing Likud
> > Party in Israel, whose religion and politics, world view, and succession
> > rituals the neocons often share. The definitions, and analogy, are
> > inexact, but both groups have recent ties to Europe and are haunted by
> > the Holocaust, which has left them feeling wounded, suspicious, and
> > sometimes bellicose, determined never again to be naive or to trust the
> > world's good intentions. Both spent decades in the po-litical wilderness
> > before miraculously acquiring power; both begat "princes" who defied the
> > normal generational tensions and allied themselves with their kingly
> > fathers. When Bill Kristol rose to praise Irving that morning, he was
> > really picking up his scepter.
> >
> > Had you Googled "neoconservative" and "death" that day, four days after
> > the 89-year-old Kristol expired, you'd have found lots on their
> > long-rumored?and for some, much-anticipated and -savored?demise.
> > On both the left and right, neoconservatism was deemed a spent force.
> > Its ideas, Foreign Policy magazine had pronounced, "lie buried in the
> > sands of Iraq."
> >
> > But obituaries can be premature. At the moment, in fact, the neocons
> > seem resurrected. One of their own, Frederick Kagan of AEI (Robert's
> > younger brother), helped turn around the war in Iraq by devising and
> > pushing for the surge there. More recent-ly, President Obama?whose
> > foreign--policy pronouncements (nuanced, multi-lateral, interdependent)
> > and style (low-key, self-critical, conciliatory, collegial) were a
> > repudiation of neoconservative assertiveness?has swung their way, or
> > so they believe. First, he's sending an additional 30,000 troops to
> > Afghanistan, nearly as many as leading neocons had sought. Then came his
> > Nobel Prize acceptance speech, which, with its acknowledgment of the
> > need for force, its nod to dissidents in Iran and elsewhere, and its
> > talk about good and evil, was surprisingly congenial.
> >
> >
> >
> > You can read the rest of it on line
> >
> > Ruben
> >

  1. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL; Sign the petition]
  2. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
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  4. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [monty-at-helpmysql.org: Help save MySQL;
  5. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grep
  6. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  7. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  8. 2010-01-01 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  9. 2010-01-01 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mysql issues
  10. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  11. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  12. 2010-01-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  13. 2010-01-02 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  14. 2010-01-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  15. 2010-01-02 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  16. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL
  17. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  18. 2010-01-03 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT]
  19. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  20. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  21. 2010-01-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  22. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  23. 2010-01-04 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  24. 2010-01-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  25. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  26. 2010-01-04 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  27. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues
  28. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Fwd: Re: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MySQL issues]
  29. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ACTA
  30. 2010-01-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Malware in Gnome Project..
  31. 2010-01-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  32. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important video
  34. 2010-01-10 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2010-01-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2010-01-10 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2010-01-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  39. 2010-01-10 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  40. 2010-01-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  41. 2010-01-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  42. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  43. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [elephants77-at-verizon.net: Signing up for
  44. 2010-01-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  45. 2010-01-13 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  46. 2010-01-14 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Foundation starts job board
  47. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  48. 2010-01-14 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] C++ Engineer, New York City | 80-100k
  49. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Events Schedule - this coming Month
  50. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Schedule Project
  51. 2010-01-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SuSE Studio Workshop
  52. 2010-01-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] China and Microsoft - together again
  53. 2010-01-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HURD Installation
  54. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  55. 2010-01-19 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  56. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  57. 2010-01-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good Year for GNU Business
  58. 2010-01-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting on Wednesday
  59. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Young Programmers and their hero worship
  60. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Human Interface Design
  61. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Kindle the Copyright Warsi
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  63. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS can't secure OS even after new security update on IE...
  64. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Twitter turns off MS dependent features and flash features because
  65. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shakespear is a bi-guy according to wikipedia
  66. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Speaking of Sheakespear..
  67. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Killer Asteroids...
  68. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  69. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite - ON FOR TOMORROW
  70. 2010-01-23 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  71. 2010-01-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  72. 2010-01-24 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  73. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  74. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  75. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  76. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  77. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  78. 2010-01-24 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jesus Linux Launch Party Tonight
  79. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Now would be a good time
  80. 2010-01-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next technite
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  83. 2010-01-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  84. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] S.F. to consider open source software
  85. 2010-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next Meeting Date?
  86. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook really really does suck]
  87. 2010-01-26 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  88. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  89. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars Continue
  90. 2010-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Fwd: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: bind (SUSE-SA:2009:059)
  91. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Tonight
  92. 2010-01-27 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  93. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  94. 2010-01-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SourceForge now blocks Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sundan, Cuba
  95. 2010-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] This just has to be seen to understood
  96. 2010-01-28 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Neocons RETURN
  97. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Re: [nylug-talk] C++ On Line Workshop
  98. 2010-01-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table tonight at 10 PM
  99. 2010-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  100. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ On Line Workshop
  101. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table
  102. 2010-01-31 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  103. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  104. 2010-01-31 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  105. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  106. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  107. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled
  108. 2010-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite Cancelled

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