|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nylug-talk] collaboration platform for the charter
|From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Dec 15 06:23:12 2011
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:24:54 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nylug-talk] collaboration platform for the charter
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Mike, Rob, Evan... please note
----- Forwarded message from Ruben Safir -----
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 06:19:45 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: NYLUG Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: [nylug-talk] collaboration platform for the charter
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
> FWIW, IMO, the formality of Robert's Rules can be frustrating, however,
> I think it was a big plus to have member Michael Richardson serve as
> meeting chair operating under the Rules of Order, and think he should be
> asked to serve in this capacity for the duration of "General
> Incorporation Meetings". (It's asking a lot) I'm not sure anything
> would have gotten accomplished without him, since there's just so much
> other stuff we could have and probably would have ended up discussing,
> that wasn't actually going to move us toward goals.
With regard to the means of posting and discussing the charter, I only
want to gently tread here because I believe you guys need to work this
out for yourselves, but really, I'm very much on board with your
sentiment at the meeting about needing 2 weeks to determine the
technology needed for charter discussions when we both thought the vote
was 2 weeks to actually have a charter to vote for in a near coming
I really perfer, though, not having something that does the following:
A) take 2 weeks to implement
B) take 3 weeks to learn
I do like email. Email technology can be viewed here:
Sending text messages electronically could be said to date back to the
Morse code telegraph of the mid 1800s; and the 1939 New York World's
Fair, where IBM sent a letter of congratulations from San Francisco to
New York on an IBM radio-type, calling it a high-speed substitute for
mail service in the world of tomorrow. Teleprinters were used in
Germany during World War II, and use spread until the late 1960s
when there was a worldwide Telex network. Additionally, there was the
similar but incompatible American TWX, which remained important until
the late 1980s.
 Host-based mail systems
With the introduction of MIT's Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS) in
1961 for the first time multiple users were able to log into a
central system from remote dial-up terminals, and to store, and
share, files on the central disk.
Informal methods of using this to pass messages developed?and were
expanded to create the first true email system:
MIT's CTSS MAIL, in 1965.
Other early time-sharing system soon had their own email applications:
1972 - Unix mail program
1972 - APL Mailbox by Larry Breed
1981 - PROFS by IBM
1982 - ALL-IN-1 by Digital Equipment Corporation
Although similar in concept, all these original email systems had widely
different features and ran on incompatible systems. They allowed
communication only between users logged into the same host or
"mainframe" - although this could be hundreds or even thousands of users
within an organization.
 Email networks
Soon systems were developed to link compatible mail programs between
different organisations over dialup modems or leased lines, creating
local and global networks.
In 1971 the first ARPANET email was sent, and through RFC 561,
RFC 680, RFC 724?and finally 1977's RFC 733, became a standardized
Other separate networks were also being created including:
Unix mail was networked by 1978's uucp, which was also used for
USENET newsgroup postings
IBM mainframe email was linked by BITNET in 1981
IBM PC's running DOS in 1984 could link with FidoNet for email and
shared bulletin board posting
 LAN email systems
In the early 1980s, networked personal computers on LANs became
increasingly important. Server-based systems similar to the earlier
mainframe systems were developed. Again these systems initially allowed
communication only between users logged into the same server
infrastructure. Examples include:
Eventually these systems too could also be linked between different
organizations, as long as they ran the same email system and proprietary
 Attempts at interoperability
This section needs additional citations for verification. Please help
improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced
material may be challenged and removed. (August 2010)
Early interoperability among independent systems included:
ARPANET, the forerunner of today's Internet, defined the first
protocols for dissimilar computers to exchange email
uucp implementations for non-Unix systems were used as an open
"glue" between differing mail systems, primarily over dialup telephones
CSNet used dial-up telephone access to link additional sites to the
ARPANET and then Internet
Later efforts at interoperability standardization included:
Novell briefly championed the open MHS protocol but abandoned it
after purchasing the non-MHS WordPerfect Office (renamed Groupwise)
The Coloured Book protocols on UK academic networks until 1992
X.400 in the 1980s and early 1990s was promoted by major vendors and
mandated for government use under GOSIP but abandoned by all but a few ?
in favor of Internet SMTP by the mid-1990s.
 From SNDMSG to MSG
In the early 1970s, Ray Tomlinson updated an existing utility called
SNDMSG so that it could copy messages (as files) over the network.
Lawrence Roberts, the project manager for the ARPANET development, took
the idea of READMAIL, which dumped all "recent" messages onto the user's
terminal, and wrote a program for TENEX in TECO macros called RD which
permitted accessing individual messages. Barry Wessler then updated
RD and called it NRD.
Marty Yonke combined rewrote NRD to include reading, access to SNDMSG
for sending, and a help system, and called the utility WRD which was
later known as BANANARD. John Vittal then updated this version to
include 3 important commands: Move (combined save/delete command),
Answer (determined to whom a reply should be sent) and Forward (send an
email to a person who was not already a recipient). The system was
called MSG. With inclusion of these features, MSG is considered to be
the first integrated modern email program, from which many other
applications have descended.
 The rise of ARPANET mail
The ARPANET computer network made a large contribution to the
development of email. There is one report that indicates experimental
inter-system email transfers began shortly after its creation in
1969. Ray Tomlinson is generally credited as having sent the first
email across a network, initiating the use of the "-at-" sign to separate
the names of the user and the user's machine in 1971, when he sent a
message from one Digital Equipment Corporation DEC-10 computer to
another DEC-10. The two machines were placed next to each other.
Tomlinson's work was quickly adopted across the ARPANET, which
significantly increased the popularity of email. For many years, email
was the killer app of the ARPANET and then the Internet.
Most other networks had their own email protocols and address formats;
as the influence of the ARPANET and later the Internet grew, central
sites often hosted email gateways that passed mail between the Internet
and these other networks. Internet email addressing is still complicated
by the need to handle mail destined for these older networks. Some
well-known examples of these were UUCP (mostly Unix computers), BITNET
(mostly IBM and VAX mainframes at universities), FidoNet (personal
computers), DECNET (various networks) and CSNET a forerunner of NSFNet.
An example of an Internet email address that routed mail to a user at a
This was necessary because in early years UUCP computers did not
maintain (and could not consult central servers for) information about
the location of all hosts they exchanged mail with, but rather only knew
how to communicate with a few network neighbors; email messages (and
other data such as Usenet News) were passed along in a chain among hosts
who had explicitly agreed to share data with each other. (Eventually the
UUCP Mapping Project would provide a form of network routing database
 Operation overview
The diagram to the right shows a typical sequence of events that
takes place when Alice composes a message using her mail user agent
(MUA). She enters the email address of her correspondent, and hits the
"send" button. How email works
Her MUA formats the message in email format and uses the Submission
Protocol (a profile of the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP), see RFC
6409) to send the message to the local mail submission agent (MSA), in
this case smtp.a.org, run by Alice's internet service provider (ISP).
The MSA looks at the destination address provided in the SMTP
protocol (not from the message header), in this case bob-at-b.org. An
Internet email address is a string of the form localpart-at-exampledomain.
The part before the -at- sign is the local part of the address, often the
username of the recipient, and the part after the -at- sign is a domain
name or a fully qualified domain name. The MSA resolves a domain name to
determine the fully qualified domain name of the mail exchange server in
the Domain Name System (DNS).
The DNS server for the b.org domain, ns.b.org, responds with any MX
records listing the mail exchange servers for that domain, in this case
mx.b.org, a message transfer agent (MTA) server run by Bob's ISP.
smtp.a.org sends the message to mx.b.org using SMTP.
This server may need to forward the message to other MTAs before the
message reaches the final message delivery agent (MDA).
The MDA delivers it to the mailbox of the user bob.
Bob presses the "get mail" button in his MUA, which picks up the
message using either the Post Office Protocol (POP3) or the Internet
Message Access Protocol (IMAP4).
That sequence of events applies to the majority of email users. However,
there are many alternative possibilities and complications to the email
Alice or Bob may use a client connected to a corporate email system,
such as IBM Lotus Notes or Microsoft Exchange. These systems often have
their own internal email format and their clients typically communicate
with the email server using a vendor-specific, proprietary protocol. The
server sends or receives email via the Internet through the product's
Internet mail gateway which also does any necessary reformatting. If
Alice and Bob work for the same company, the entire transaction may
happen completely within a single corporate email system.
Alice may not have a MUA on her computer but instead may connect to
a webmail service.
Alice's computer may run its own MTA, so avoiding the transfer at
Bob may pick up his email in many ways, for example logging into
mx.b.org and reading it directly, or by using a webmail service.
Domains usually have several mail exchange servers so that they can
continue to accept mail when the main mail exchange server is not
Email messages are not secure if email encryption is not used
Many MTAs used to accept messages for any recipient on the Internet and
do their best to deliver them. Such MTAs are called open mail relays.
This was very important in the early days of the Internet when network
connections were unreliable. If an MTA couldn't reach the destination,
it could at least deliver it to a relay closer to the destination. The
relay stood a better chance of delivering the message at a later time.
However, this mechanism proved to be exploitable by people sending
unsolicited bulk email and as a consequence very few modern MTAs are
open mail relays, and many MTAs don't accept messages from open mail
relays because such messages are very likely to be spam.
Also, it is a mistake to allow for completely open ended annotation and
change of the charter document. Just as Robert Rules allowed for us to
move forward and focus our discussion constructively, I'm going to need
a means of "chairing" the charter discussion. I'd also like to be started
by Tuesday on schedule.
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn,
like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the
world - RI Safir 1998
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to
our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own
> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have
been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess
you missed that one."
? Copyright for the Digital Millennium
----- End forwarded message -----