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DATE 2015-11-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2015-11-08
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fun with FUD in the largest Washington Post
On 11/08/2015 10:47 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com):
>
>> Linux sucks... hat is he short version
>
> Extremely useful. Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> hangout mailing list
> hangout-at-nylxs.com
> http://www.nylxs.com/



http://www.smh.com.au/news/Technology/Canvassing-all-security-cracks/2005/04/20/1113854252106.html
>
Canvassing all security cracks
By Sam Varghese
April 22, 2005
Page Tools

Dave Aitel..."All I am doing is making my clients aware of the risk at
which they are putting themselves when they use a given application.
What's wrong with that?"

Dave Aitel..."All I am doing is making my clients aware of the risk at
which they are putting themselves when they use a given application.
What's wrong with that?"

If Dave Aitel finds using assembly language second nature today, he has
a grandparent to thank for it. When Aitel was 12, his maternal
grandfather started teaching him the language, paving the way for a
career in information technology.

Getting a scholarship to work as a computer scientist at the National
Security Agency was probably the deciding factor.

At 28 (he looks much younger), Aitel has been in the security business a
long time - he joined the NSA when he was 18 and worked there for six years.

After the NSA stint, Aitel spent three years with -at-stake, the security
firm that grew out of the hacker group L0pht. (-at-stake has now been
bought by Symantec). He says these two billets taught him most of what
he needs to run his own business, which he set up five years ago.

His clients pay his New York-based firm, Immunity, anything from
$US50,000 ($A65,000) to $US100,000 a year. Five people work at Immunity
full-time; others come on board as needed.

Immunity's main product is an attack tool, CANVAS, which can be used for
penetration testing. The open design allows companies to adapt it to
their own environment.

Despite being considered one of the best in the dog-eat-dog global IT
security community, Aitel isn't prone to arrogance.

He is one hacker (and the term is used advisedly) who is also very good
at public relations. Not for him the short, sharp, incisive reply - he
considers the questions thrown at him and, at times, seems genuinely
surprised that people would seek to sink a knife into his back.

That is just what has been happening recently. Both proprietary software
vendors and a senior researcher have been questioning the way he
operates. Jealousy could be one of the reasons behind the attacks, he
concedes; he makes a good deal of money from his clients. He and his
researchers provide clients with inside knowledge of the vulnerabilities
they find. The vendor of the software in question is not informed.

Aitel defends his method of operation. He questions why he should be
informing people about the defects in their products. "Any software
vendor has to assume that if I or any other researcher can find holes,
then the crackers, the bad guys, are likely to have found them much
earlier. The bad guys outnumber researchers. So vendors should be
looking at the security of their own software much more closely.

"Look at the average software company, apart from Microsoft. All these
companies have a small number of people devoted to security. Most of
their time goes on marketing and sales. Why aren't they paying more
attention to security?"

People in the security business have different attitudes when it comes
to disclosure of vulnerabilities - some say one should publish exploits
without bothering to inform the vendor, others say the vendor should be
informed and given a period of 30 or 60 days to fix things before the
vulnerability is made public.

And vendors of proprietary software say vulnerabilities should only be
disclosed when a patch is ready - they call it responsible disclosure.

But Aitel says the whole idea of responsible disclosure is bogus. "Look,
these problems (vulnerabilities) have existed for years. Multiple people
come up with the same discoveries all the time. I am not arrogant enough
to think that when I find a serious flaw in an application that is
widely used by business, only Dave Aitel can find this out.

"No, I know that dozens of blackhats would have found these same holes
already. Look at any security mailing list - Full Disclosure or Bugtraq,
for example. The number of people posting under anonymous names is much,
much greater than the researchers who disclose their names. The security
community is a year or two behind the blackhats.

"All I am doing is making my clients aware of the risk at which they are
putting themselves when they use a given application. What's wrong with
that?"

Aitel disputes the mantra that patches are the ultimate remedy.
"Patching is terribly expensive," he says. "You have to test and test to
ensure that your applications all work after the patch. And then
deploying a patch in a medium-sized firm will cost many hundreds of
thousands. How many companies are prepared - or even have - this kind of
money to spend on deploying a patch?"

He blames media hype for the attacks on Immunity. "Someone may say
something after a couple of drinks, something that he or she thought was
not for publication. A journalist may understand it differently."

Would he do anything differently if he had the chance to start all over
again? "Charge higher prices for my work," he laughs.

More in his own words:

Immunity is probably the only security firm which has the model of
finding bugs and not informing vendors - ever. How did you come to
decide on this kind of business model?

We're definitely not the only vendor that has private vulnerability
information and capitalises on it in some way. In fact, most major
vendors have this sort of policy at some level.

As hackers get into business, they tend to become more starchy and
corporate in their behaviour. You appear to still retain some of the
playfulness that characterises hackers as evinced by your "Microsoft
total cost of 0wnership" paper. Ever found this to be a liability? Or is
it an asset?

The TC0 paper got on Slashdot, and generated more hits than any advisory
ever could. Most people who read it liked it - the ones that understood
it was a joke, at least. I consider not having venture capitalist money
and being able to do things like that an asset. We didn't put it out
solely for publicity though; we just thought the whole "Total Cost of
Ownership" whitepaper idea was funny. We tried to fill it with just
slightly less unsubstantiated nonsense as the other papers available on
the subject.

What did those years at the NSA teach you? Why did you leave?

The first thing they teach you is not to talk about your years at the
NSA. I have to be pretty strict on this sort of thing since I do a lot
of travelling and I need foriegn intelligence services to know there are
no inches to be given, nor miles to be taken. I can say that I'm happy
not to be living in Columbia, Maryland ( the small suburban town the NSA
is based in). Obviously I met a lot of great people at the NSA and
-at-stake and some of them are now at Microsoft and the other big
consulting companies or are potential customers, and that doesn't hurt.

What did your years at -at-stake teach you?

How to do the trade of consulting, and in some cases, how not to do the
trade of consulting. Consulting is a valuable skill. So few people know
how to do it that you find yourself looking for consulting skills even
in people you are hiring into a research role. Ninety per cent of the
job is being able to get to where the job is, on time, and in a suit.

Likewise, I learned that fame is money. -at-stake, like most other
consulting companies, was not extremely fond of its "resources" getting
famous. It's difficult to release papers at most other companies. They
feel that if you get famous, you'll be able to ask for more money, and
they know that salary is their biggest expense. On the other hand, there
were several gigs that both myself and David Litchfield were on, and
-at-stake charged more for David Litchfield. Rightfully so, since the
customer was willing to pay for it, but that taught me an important
lesson as to the value of getting your employees as famous as possible.
Hence, Immunity is always trying to get our employees to talk at
conferences, release papers, and otherwise show how smart they are.

Another lesson I learned from -at-stake's mistakes was not to make my
employees miserable when they travel. When I was at -at-stake I got put on
a three month gig in Redmond, Washington in the equivalent of a Motel 6,
without being able to expense a rental car. I left shortly after to
start Immunity. Immunity puts you up in real hotels, and we let our
employees expense iPods and good noise reduction headphones for long travel.

It is natural for other companies which have lesser lights in their
ranks to dislike your company. How does this dislike play out in real life?

I don't believe there are other companies that have lesser lights. NAI
has Oded Horowitz, among others, Symantec has Chris Eng and Kevin Dunn,
among others. ISS has Neel Mehta and Mark Dowd. Neohapsis has John
MacDonald. And that's just the US companies I know off the top of my
head. There's some great people in Europe and Asia doing research as
well. New Zealand is well represented. There's a lot of top notch
researchers all over the place. One of the things I do is throw these
little parties here in New York City called "Security Shindigs".
Basically, these are mini-conferences, with free pizza and a talk from
someone about something security related. You'll see our competition
come to these. There's no bad blood allowed.

What's the difference between what you're doing now and what Marc
Maiffret did in 2001 when he released details of the Code Red vulnerability?

eEye still releases details to vulnerabilities, and that's a good thing.
Releasing the details of vulnerabilities helps everyone determine how at
risk they are. It helps tool-makers, like scanner companies and IDS
companies, protect their customers. This information is freely available
to everyone once the patch is released anyways via binary diffing. Even
if it wasn't, you have to assume people have 0day in the wild.

Once you accept that there are bugs you don't know about that other
people do, it's not about when someone releases a vulnerability. It's
about what secondary protections you have. Patches are hugely expensive
to deploy and largely irrelevant. The key is host intrusion prevention,
locked down configurations, and upgrading to Windows 2003 SP1, Windows
XP SP2 or any modern Linux that has protective measures enabled and
isn't vulnerable to fifty year old problems.

Other security vendors are on record as questioning the "ethical" nature
of your business model. Your comment?

There's a lot of nonsense in the media about this, but if you come to a
security conference, you find everyone in the same bar having a good
time and buying each other drinks. Likewise, most people in the industry
are customers of Immunity. I'm not certain how true some of these
articles are. I can't believe a VP of Computer Associates said he
doesn't think NDAs are worth signing because everyone breaks them. He
probably signs one NDA a day.

Do you ever fear that someone will do what Sybase did recently - get
wind of some vulnerability you have found and send you a legal notice to
prevent you sharing information with your customers?

This is one of the reasons Open Source software is so much more secure
than closed source software - there's no incentive for an Open Source
software vendor to sue you because you did free work for them. Security
information about Open Source software is freely distributed, and this
helps educate the end users as to their actual risk. With closed source
software, there's no way for a business or an end user to know how much
risk they are at from any particular configuration, which makes it more
expensive to run. Businesses like to be able to know how much risk they
are at. What Sybase really did was not protect their customers, but put
them in a very difficult position. Now Sybase's customers don't know the
full extent of the problem, but they do know Sybase has something to hide.

Securing software is actually quite easy. Both Open Source and Microsoft
compilers have special flags to protect software from common
vulnerabilities. There have been dramatic changes in the security of
recent operating systems. These days, there's no excuse for anyone to
run Windows 2000 on a network and then complain about it getting hacked.
Upgrade to Windows 2003 SP1 or XP SP2 or any modern Linux and your
problems just go away.

_______________________________________________
hangout mailing list
hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://www.nylxs.com/

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  28. 2015-11-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Users] 64 bit encoding
  29. 2015-11-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Users] 64 bit encoding
  30. 2015-11-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Users] 64 bit encoding
  31. 2015-11-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Users] 64 bit encoding
  32. 2015-11-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Users] 64 bit encoding
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  66. 2015-11-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  67. 2015-11-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  68. 2015-11-09 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  69. 2015-11-09 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] serious iphone/objectivec problems
  70. 2015-11-09 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] serious iphone/objectivec problems
  71. 2015-11-09 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] serious iphone/objectivec problems
  72. 2015-11-09 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  73. 2015-11-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The Technology of Wishing
  74. 2015-11-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] another time and place
  75. 2015-11-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The importance and moral obligation to archive
  76. 2015-11-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] message from Jesus
  77. 2015-11-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] everything in the story has to be exactly on time
  78. 2015-11-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] RMS on Education
  79. 2015-11-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] situation worsens
  80. 2015-11-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Who snoops on Who
  81. 2015-11-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Salman Rushdie
  82. 2015-11-14 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Islam
  83. 2015-11-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [jkeen-at-verizon.net: ny.pm technical meeting on
  84. 2015-11-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Quick Cruise up the Hudson with the Smithsonian
  85. 2015-11-15 From: "ballantrae101 ." <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Quick Cruise up the Hudson with the Smithsonian
  86. 2015-11-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  87. 2015-11-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] FWIW for Michael et al
  88. 2015-11-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] jobs
  89. 2015-11-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] jobs followup
  90. 2015-11-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  91. 2015-11-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] windows 3.1
  92. 2015-11-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ransomware - attacking apache
  93. 2015-11-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] windows 3.1
  94. 2015-11-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] windows 3.1
  95. 2015-11-17 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] windows 3.1
  96. 2015-11-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] [conspire] CIA chief Brennan hints new gov't
  97. 2015-11-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] could be done better if it was planned
  98. 2015-11-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Bad Debt Collectors and Their Prey
  99. 2015-11-18 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  100. 2015-11-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  101. 2015-11-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] ms linux continues
  102. 2015-11-19 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ms linux continues
  103. 2015-11-19 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  104. 2015-11-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] ms linux continues
  105. 2015-11-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Clips Notes
  106. 2015-11-19 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  107. 2015-11-19 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  108. 2015-11-20 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] permissions in Debian packages?
  109. 2015-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Handling dates and Time
  110. 2015-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Handling dates and Time
  111. 2015-11-20 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Could NYLXS, CCNY. LIU,
  112. 2015-11-20 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Could NYLXS, CCNY. LIU,
  113. 2015-11-20 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: eudyptula challenge,
  114. 2015-11-20 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Could NYLXS, CCNY. LIU,
  115. 2015-11-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Wastson on SuSE
  116. 2015-11-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Wastson on SuSE
  117. 2015-11-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  118. 2015-11-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  119. 2015-11-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Artificial Intelligence and Forward Chaining
  120. 2015-11-22 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux Job
  121. 2015-11-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] another job
  122. 2015-11-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] PHP
  123. 2015-11-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] this is the funiest thing Robin Williams never said
  124. 2015-11-24 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] this is the funiest thing Robin Williams never
  125. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Letters of Recommendation
  126. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [noreply-at-comsoc.org: New Course on Big Data 5-6
  127. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Firefox marketing on Flatbush Avenue
  128. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  129. 2015-11-24 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  130. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  131. 2015-11-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] in memorial
  132. 2015-11-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] security and tracking in the land of terrorism
  133. 2015-11-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] just a plug for our friend Amy
  134. 2015-11-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] private reusable rocket is a success
  135. 2015-11-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  136. 2015-11-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] [conspire] CIA chief Brennan hints new gov't
  137. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Middle east Analysis
  138. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] [conspire] CIA chief Brennan hints new gov't
  139. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Thanksgiving Present
  140. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] [conspire] CIA chief Brennan hints new gov't
  141. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] A message for Thanksgiving
  142. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Eight bucks, no kidding!
  143. 2015-11-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Five bucks, no kidding!
  144. 2015-11-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Compiler Theory Class
  145. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Nice Jewish Girl
  146. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Larry Wall on Haskell and Java
  147. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Apollo
  148. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Sil;licon Valley Republicans
  149. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] new way to get interviews only through skype ??
  150. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The New Linux Journal in an app happy world
  151. 2015-11-27 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  152. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Five bucks, no kidding!
  153. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Systems Administrator Position
  154. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  155. 2015-11-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] losing the internet
  156. 2015-11-27 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cheapbytes has been slacking
  157. 2015-11-27 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Five bucks, no kidding!
  158. 2015-11-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The New Linux Journal in an app happy world
  159. 2015-11-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The New Linux Journal in an app happy world
  160. 2015-11-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] losing the internet
  161. 2015-11-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Decent Vorbis Radio
  162. 2015-11-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the week
  163. 2015-11-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] 30 thousand bucks, no kidding!
  164. 2015-11-30 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] ???? = question ? So what is the question (s) ?
  165. 2015-11-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Domination

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