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MESSAGE
DATE 2017-01-16
FROM From: "Ruben.Safir"
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Cameras and the Law
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2017/01/18093/


That Time I Turned a Routine Traffic Ticket into the Constitutional
Trial of the Century
by Adam J. MacLeod
within Constitutional Law

January 13th, 2017


77.6K 10.1K 94.7K

Laws that give municipal officials and their private contractors power
to issue tickets via traffic cameras confer powers of both criminal and
civil law while excusing them from the due process duties of both
criminal and civil law.

The traffic-camera ticket: like a parking ticket, it looks lawful
enough. When they receive one, most people simply write the check. It
seems like the sensible and law-abiding thing to do.

But this is not a parking ticket. In legal terms, it is not a proceeding
in rem—against your car. It is a legal action against you personally.
And before you pay the fine, you might want to hear my story.

My story is not legal advice. I offer it only to show how our ruling
elites have corrupted the rule of law and to suggest why this matters
for the American experiment in self-governance.

The Ticket

My story begins with a confession: I got a traffic-camera ticket. An
affidavit signed by a Montgomery City police officer, it averred that I
had committed a particular traffic violation on a certain date, at a
certain time and location. It showed a photograph of one of our family
vehicles. It charged me with a “civil violation” of “criminal law.”

I wasn’t driving the car. In fact, at the time I was in a faculty
meeting at the law school where I teach. Thus, I decided to challenge
this injustice on the principle of the thing.

Municipal Court

On the appointed day, I tromped over to municipal court and sat down
among those accused of armed robbery, drug dealing, and other misdeeds.
After an hour, a bailiff emerged to herd into a corner of the courtroom
those of us who had appeared for the slightly more respectable offense
of owning a speeding vehicle. We waited some more, first for the clerk,
and then to be called individually to meet the clerk. Those of us who
requested a hearing (evoking an exasperated,
poor-idiot-thinks-he’s-Perry-Mason expression) then waited for a
magistrate to show up. Then we each waited our turn to appear before the
magistrate.

After a summary hearing, the magistrate ruled against me. So I appealed
to the county-level Circuit Court.

Actually, I tried to appeal. The clerk’s office made me wait in the
lobby. When they finally saw me, they insisted that I provide a criminal
appeal bond. But I wasn’t convicted of a crime, I protested. No matter.
No appeal bond; no appeal.

No, we don’t accept checks. Come back with the amount of your ticket in
cash. I found an ATM and returned, only to be left waiting in the lobby
again. When I was readmitted, I saw a different employee who insisted on
twice the amount of the ticket in cash. I left and returned again.

More waiting.

The City Attorney

Next, I called the City Attorney to see if she really wanted to go
through with this. She did.

One does not expect municipal officials to be paragons of lawfulness.
But it is a bit jarring to encounter a City Attorney who evinces no
interest in, much less knowledge of, her constitutional duties.

I asked her whether this was a criminal action or a civil action. She
replied, “It’s hard to explain it in those terms.” I asked whether she
intended to proceed under criminal procedural rules or in civil
procedure. We would proceed under the “rules of criminal procedure,” she
answered because this is a criminal case. I asked when I could expect to
be charged, indicted, or have a probable cause determination. She
replied that none of those events would occur because this is “a civil
action.” So I could expect to be served with a complaint? No, no. As she
had already explained, we would proceed under the criminal rules.

(For the record, the Montgomery City Attorney never studied law with me.)

She asserted that I had violated the “rules of the road” and explained,
“You were caught on camera speeding.” I asked her for any evidence. She
replied that she did not need evidence. I was deemed liable because an
automobile that I own “was caught speeding.” But the complaint is
against me, I noted, not my car. But I am liable, she insisted, because
I loaned my vehicle to “someone who speeds.”

I asked where in the laws it prohibits me from loaning my vehicle, and
how I am to know in advance that any particular person is going to speed
using my car. Agitated by my “semantics,” she advised me to raise any
due process issues with the trial court.

[*click*]

This was going to be fun.

The Trial

Before the trial, I moved to dismiss the case. I wanted the judge to pay
attention, so I tried to make the motion interesting. Okay, maybe
“interesting” isn’t the best word. It was over the top. I alluded to
Hobbes and Locke. I quoted the Declaration of Independence. I suggested
the success of the American experiment was at stake. I resorted to
superlatives. You know: all the stuff I teach my law students never to do.

We proceeded to trial. The city produced one witness, the police officer
who had signed the affidavit. On direct examination, he explained how
the traffic camera system works. A corporation in another state called
American Traffic Solutions operates the camera system, chooses the
photographs on which to predicate enforcement, recommends the Montgomery
police department initiate an action against a vehicle’s owner, and is
paid for its work.

On cross-examination, I established that:

- He was not present at the time of the alleged violation.

- He has no photographic evidence of the driver.

- There were no witnesses.

- He does not know where Adam MacLeod was at the time of the
alleged violation.

And so on. I then asked the question one is taught never to ask on
cross—the last one. “So, you signed an affidavit under the pains and
penalties of perjury alleging probable cause to believe that Adam
MacLeod committed a violation of traffic laws without any evidence that
was so?”

Without hesitating he answered, “Yes.” This surprised both of us. It
also surprised the judge, who looked up from his desk for the first
time. A police officer had just testified under oath that he perjured
himself in service to a city government and a mysterious, far-away
corporation whose officers probably earn many times his salary.

The city then rested its case. I renewed my motion to dismiss, which the
judge immediately granted.

Vindication! Well, sort of. When I tried to recover my doubled appeal
bond, I was told that the clerk was not authorized to give me my money.
Naturally, the law contains no procedure for return of the bond and
imposes on the court no duty to return it. I was advised to write a
motion. Weeks later, when the court still had not ruled on my motion, I
was told I could file a motion asking for a ruling on my earlier motion.
Bowing to absurdity, I did so. Still nothing has happened now several
months later.

Why This Matters

Traffic camera laws are popular in part because they appeal to a
law-and-order impulse. If we are going to stop those nefarious evildoers
who jeopardize the health of the republic by sliding through yellow
lights when no one else is around and driving through empty streets at
thirty miles per hour in twenty-five zones, then we need a way around
such pesky impediments as a lack of eyewitnesses.

Yet traffic cameras do not always produce probable cause that a
particular person has committed a crime. To get around this “problem”
(as a certain law-and-order president-elect might call it), several
states have created an entirely novel phylum of law: the civil violation
of a criminal prohibition. Using this nifty device, a city can charge
you of a crime without any witnesses, without any probable cause
determination, and without any civil due process.

In short, municipal officials and their private contractors have at
their disposal the powers of both criminal and civil law and are excused
from the due process duties of both criminal and civil law. It’s a neat
trick that would have made King George III blush.

Standing and the Fundamentals of Constitutionalism

Equally troubling is that the municipality is authorized to make the
owner answer a civil suit without any standing. Standing is a
requirement for a person who wishes to enlist a state’s judicial power
against another person. No fellow citizen can haul you into court
without first alleging that you wrongly caused some particular injury to
that person.

A city cannot lawfully do to you what your fellow citizen cannot do to
you. And it has no standing if it has suffered no particular injury. If
a driver rolls through a yellow light at an empty intersection and fails
to cross the line before the light turns red, no one is injured, least
of all the city.

In my case, the City Attorney argued that my city has standing because
someone exceeded the speed limit while driving my car and thereby
breached his or her duty to obey the law. Certainly, all citizens have a
duty not to break criminal laws with culpable intent. But we owe that
duty neither to the city nor to the state but to each other. If we
breach the duty, the city prosecutes on behalf of the people and must
afford us criminal due process.

That is American Constitutionalism 101.

The Mayor

The story continues. Lovers of liberty in Alabama kept political
pressure on the state legislature, and earlier this year the legislature
repealed the traffic-camera law. Yet Montgomery’s defiant mayor
announced that the city would continue to operate the program.
Curiously, he asserted that to stop issuing tickets would breach the
city’s contract with American Traffic Solutions. One wonders how many
tickets the city is contractually obligated to issue.

Finally, after the Attorney General told him to knock off the
foolishness, the mayor backed down. Sort of. The city will no longer use
car-based cameras, though it will continue to use stationary cameras
mounted at intersections. In a fit of petulance, and belying his
insistence that the program is motivated by safety concerns rather than
revenue, the mayor announced that the amounts of fines for ordinary
traffic violations will now be tripled.

A Small Inconvenience, a Big Problem for Self-Government

Traffic-camera laws seem like such minor, insignificant intrusions on
liberty that few grasp their constitutional significance. But they
reflect a profoundly mistaken view of American constitutionalism. One
might say that the traffic camera is a sign of our times. Its widespread
use and acceptance reveals how far we have drifted from our fundamental
commitment to self-government. When our governing officials dismiss due
process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and
ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it,
we have ceased to be our own rulers.

Adam MacLeod is an associate professor at Faulkner University’s Thomas
Goode Jones School of Law and author of Property and Practical Reason
(Cambridge University Press).
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  76. 2017-01-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the week
  77. 2017-01-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the week
  78. 2017-01-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Alumni Publications
  79. 2017-01-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Word of the Year for 2016
  80. 2017-01-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Nice project to learn from
  81. 2017-01-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The Snoden Affair
  82. 2017-01-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  83. 2017-01-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  84. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  85. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  86. 2017-01-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Rick Moen in Amsterdam
  87. 2017-01-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  88. 2017-01-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  89. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  90. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  91. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The Snoden Affair
  92. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Need a loan
  93. 2017-01-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Loan
  94. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] good news
  95. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  96. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  97. 2017-01-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  98. 2017-01-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  99. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  100. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  101. 2017-01-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] well,
  102. 2017-01-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] What Japan SHOULD have done !
  103. 2017-01-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] What Japan SHOULD have done !
  104. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] anyone understand this - ME
  105. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Grub on libreboot
  106. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] compiler job
  107. 2017-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Marching against Trump
  108. 2017-01-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Amazing Photographic history of Hell
  109. 2017-01-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] San Francisco Asks: Where Have All the Children
  110. 2017-01-24 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) [skeptic] Coming soon to YOUR country's
  111. 2017-01-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: NYC TechBreakfast 1/26 -at-LIUBK Pratt 110
  112. 2017-01-25 From: "SUSE" <news-at-suse.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] SUSE Acquires Talent and Technology Assets from HPE
  113. 2017-01-24 From: "[RSS/Feed] nixCraft: Linux Tips, Hacks, Tutorials, Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] nixCraft Linux / UNIX Newsletter
  114. 2017-01-24 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Call For Papers - 39th Annual International
  115. 2017-01-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] R Programming Workshop
  116. 2017-01-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines
  117. 2017-01-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] MTM
  118. 2017-01-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] MTM
  119. 2017-01-25 ruth02-at-web.de Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Are you not the one that said: ....."the next
  120. 2017-01-25 ruth02-at-web.de Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Rick Moen in Amsterdam: is this foto of famous
  121. 2017-01-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines
  122. 2017-01-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Rick Moen in Amsterdam: is this foto of famous
  123. 2017-01-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Are you not the one arguing against yourself? (was:
  124. 2017-01-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] FYI Mountain Fruit has 3 lbs of apples for $0.99
  125. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines II
  126. 2017-01-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines II
  127. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines II
  128. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] good video
  129. 2017-01-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines II
  130. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsoft Linux is finally here
  131. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Installfest at LIU Brooklyn
  132. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] intro to docker
  133. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] coreboot and payloads
  134. 2017-01-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] coreboot and payloads
  135. 2017-01-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines II
  136. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] MTM
  137. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] coreboot and payloads
  138. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] librepalnet
  139. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] librepalnet
  140. 2017-01-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] coreboot and payloads
  141. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] coreboot and payloads
  142. 2017-01-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines III
  143. 2017-01-27 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines III
  144. 2017-01-27 From: <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] sooo smart
  145. 2017-01-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The future of the world....plastic
  146. 2017-01-27 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) [skeptic] Alex Jones says Infowars has been
  147. 2017-01-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) [skeptic] Alex Jones says Infowars has
  148. 2017-01-27 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) [skeptic] Alex Jones says Infowars has
  149. 2017-01-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Holo-who?
  150. 2017-01-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  151. 2017-01-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  152. 2017-01-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  153. 2017-01-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  154. 2017-01-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  155. 2017-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  156. 2017-01-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] want to see STUPID - Daniel Benjamin
  157. 2017-01-29 From: <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] want to see STUPID - Daniel Benjamin
  158. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  159. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  160. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  161. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  162. 2017-01-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  163. 2017-01-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines IV
  164. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  165. 2017-01-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Holo-who?
  166. 2017-01-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  167. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  168. 2017-01-29 Glenn Randers-Pehrson <glennrp-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [png-mng-implement] Upcoming PNG chunk voting
  169. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  170. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Holo-who?
  171. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  172. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Backups to external media
  173. 2017-01-30 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news,
  174. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] R Programming Workshop
  175. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Installfest for Lunch
  176. 2017-01-30 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <mat-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] MAT Application Deadline Extended
  177. 2017-01-30 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #288 - Grants committee looking for
  178. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] 7 Awesome Open Source Web Performance Software For
  179. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Beer and social meeting
  180. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  181. 2017-01-30 From: "Rijksmuseum" <rijksstudio-at-news.rijksmuseum.nl> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Winter Wonderland in Rijksstudio
  182. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  183. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  184. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  185. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  186. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news,
  187. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  188. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  189. 2017-01-30 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ? Worry
  190. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  191. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  192. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  193. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  194. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  195. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  196. 2017-01-30 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] #'s I, V and XIV,
  197. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] #'s I, V and XIV,
  198. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] #'s I, V and XIV,
  199. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  200. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] #'s I, V and XIV,
  201. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  202. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] continued noise
  203. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] country being deliberately monkeywrenched ?
  204. 2017-01-30 Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?Kickoff_for_LIU-Brooklyn=E2=80=99s_Regi?=
  205. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [communications-at-pharmacistelink.com: Walgreens
  206. 2017-01-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  207. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines V
  208. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] H1B visas are BULLSHIT
  209. 2017-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  210. 2017-01-30 From: =?utf-8?Q?Brooklyn=20Museum?= <brooklynvisitor-at-brooklynmuseum.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?Target_First_Saturday=3A_Free_Night_at_?=
  211. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  212. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: #'s I, V and XIV,
  213. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] CAIR roots - National Review
  214. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] cpu limits
  215. 2017-01-31 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: #'s I, V and XIV
  216. 2017-01-31 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [dinosaur] Collagen preserved in Early
  217. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: #'s I, V and XIV
  218. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  219. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  220. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Are you not the one arguing against yourself?
  221. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: [skeptic] Let the beheadings commence!
  222. 2017-01-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news headlines III
  223. 2017-01-30 Glenn Randers-Pehrson <glennrp-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [png-mng-implement] CFV: PNG Registration 2017-0125
  224. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: [skeptic] Let the beheadings
  225. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] In other news, making America safe again
  226. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Check this out
  227. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) Re: #'s I, V and XIV
  228. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ruben's "really" important news VI
  229. 2017-01-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [isoc-ny] FCC Seeks Diverse Stakeholders for
  230. 2017-01-31 prmarino1-at-gmail.com Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Let's take a vote on non free speech software

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