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DATE 2017-02-01

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Key: id Value: 546024

Key: archive Value: 2017-02-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2017-02-15
FROM Rick Moen
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Wed Feb 15 19:25:42 2017
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Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com):

> how do I make a package for aptget from firefox?

I happen to know from telephone discussion what your _actual_ problem
is, and you aren't bothering to mention it, which means people cannot
help you address your real problem.

You have a laptop (originally some sort of ThinkPad, maybe a T400 or
X200, from UK vendor Ministry of Freedom, minifree.org) that had its
system BIOS replaced (I guess, socketed ROM) with a build of LibreBoot,
which is a militant-free-software fork of CoreBoot. LibreBoot has been
somehow hard-coded to branch to an installation of GRUB on the hard
drive that has been preconfigured to branch to a Trisquel OS preload.

Triquel GNU/Linux is a militant-free-software OS, based on some Ubuntu
Linux or other, that doesn't include Firefox because anti-free
blah-blah DRM-support blah-blah, but rather GNU IceCat. If you complain
and say you'd like to figure yout how to install Firefox, you're advised
to try Abrowser, which is an unbranded version of Firefox tweaked to
never recommend unfree software.

If you complain about _that_ and ask help figuring out how to install
Firefox, as Ruben did, the grand panjandrums of Triquel GNU/Linux
accuse you of 'trolling' and being a Very Bad Person (according to
Ruben's recounting that I can well believe).


Through long interaction with you over the telephone, I answered your
questions about how to deal with your _real_ problem (LibreBoot /
Triquel) and gain actual fundamental control over your computer's boot
process. You never bothered to say what happened, so I have zero
feedback.

You know, one of the really extraordinarily frustrating aspects of
giving people expert technical advice is that far too many such people
are just black holes for information you give: You advise them about
how to get a handle on their problems, and they never tell you anything
useful back. It's actually a bit demoralising, Ruben.


So, in short: I've given you quite a bit of advice about how to get
into control over your POST and bootup processes, so _you_ can decide
what OS to run. IMO, any computing device where you cannot do so is
of very limited use: It fails to qualify as a general-purpose computing
device. Except for certain embedded appliances like my 2000s Motorola
RAZRv3 non-smartphone, my dedicated ebook reader, and my PDA, I would
sell the computer in question and buy something I could control.

Did you get into _actual_ control of your ThinkPad? What did you try?
What happened when you tried that? If it didn't work, why are you
keeping the damned thing and not selling it on a greater-fool theory?


But you are now defining the problem as 'How do I make a package for
aptget [sic] from Firefox?' This isn't actually _even_ what you think
you want. You are thereby overconstraining the solution to a problem
you think you have.

What you _think_ you want is to construct a .deb of Firefox locally that
is then installable on your radical-free-software Ubuntu variant.
However, you'd be perfectly happy to have that as already prebuilt
software. You _don't_ actually require installation of a qualifying
piece of software via /usr/bin/apt-get . That's just the utterly wrong
way you phrased the question.

What you _really_ want is Firefox on a reasonable Linux distribution.
Which means you want a reasonable Linux distribution rather than
Triquel. But you didn't say that, because you're floundering around
trying things.


_Granting_ for the sake of discussion that you're sticking with Triquel,
which seems incredibly bizarre because obviously you don't like it,
it's not _at all_ obvious to me that your best solution is to build the
software locally, especially given that Firefox is extremely complex
software with many runtime dependencies and even more build
dependencies.

What you would thus be logically most looking for is a third-party deb
repository for Firefox. _Or_, since this is some kinda eccentric Ubuntu
variant for FSF hippies, you could use Ubuntu's adorable little walled
garden of add-on software for Ubuntu that are hosted at
ppa.launchpad.net: Personal Package Archives.

Here is one PPA, for firefox-next:
https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-next

Here is introductory text about PPAs:
https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA

Now, I really don't like the idea of PPAs very much: software walled
gardens are not my cuppa. It might be smarter to use Ubuntu repos.
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/adding-ubuntu-repositories-trisquel-temporarily

Warning: Adding third-party repos to a deb-based distro can mess up the
distro. Therefore, it would be at minimum a superb idea to use
package-pinning (apt preferences) to ensure that the source in question
is _never_ used except when specifically invoked from the apt-get
command line using option '-t [thing]'. Example, assuming the new apt
sources would be like this block cited at the above-specified URL:

--- begin cut here ---
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty universe multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty-updates multiverse
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty-security universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty-security multiverse
--- end cut here ---

The 'thing' in question is thus 'trusty', which was Trusty Tahr, Ubuntu 14.04
(April 2014 release). To package-pin those sources to a _low_ priority
(sub-100) and prevent the sources from being used by default, you could
add this to /etc/apt/preferences:

--- begin cut here ---
Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 50
--- end cut here ---

Do NOT use Trusty Tahr in 2017. It's obsolete. Your job is to
determine what Ubuntu release is believed compatible with your release
of Trisquel (that you hate and rationally should be seeking to blow
away), and use references and /etc/apt/sources.list or
/etc/apt/sources.list.d/* lines appropriate to it.

Got it?

Oh, and, just to be clear, the corresponding command syntax would be

# apt-get -t [thing] install packagename

Given that this is an adorable toy Ubuntu thing, season with sudo to suit.


Tip about pinning is from, ta-da! -- basic Debian user documentation,
and cribbed here from my ancient debian-tips file.
http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/debian-tips

The experts say that using pinning in this fashion (values < 100) is
bass-ackwards from the intended mode of use. That's what happens when I
discover software features through experimentation rather than from
reading documentation. But it works.

The effect of '-t [thing]' is that the specified package(s) and
immediately necessary dependencies _only_ are fetched from the specified
apt source. Invocations of apt without that switch won't go there.


_______________________________________________
hangout mailing list
hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://www.nylxs.com/

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  81. 2017-02-10 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  82. 2017-02-10 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsofts new stratergy to beat linux | | ...
  83. 2017-02-10 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsofts new stratergy to beat linux | | ...
  84. 2017-02-10 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsofts new stratergy to beat linux | | I
  85. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Tech News - Honeypots
  86. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] more on honeypots
  87. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Internet of things DDOS threat
  88. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Hackers and Honepots
  89. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Mozilla and DRM
  90. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] WebRTC coding in html5
  91. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] WebRTC coding in html5
  92. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] vim and the free software world
  93. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Robotics
  94. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Researchers use artificial neural network to
  95. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] power grids in peril
  96. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Neuronet theory
  97. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linguistics
  98. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  99. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] lions and tigers and snow leopards
  100. 2017-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  101. 2017-02-10 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsofts new stratergy to beat linux | | I
  102. 2017-02-12 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] anyone know what is this
  103. 2017-02-12 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] anyone know what is this
  104. 2017-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] fellowship positition
  105. 2017-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  106. 2017-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Trump Economics and Lou Costello teaches about a
  107. 2017-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  108. 2017-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Name the artist and the work..
  109. 2017-02-13 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #290 - Interview at FOSDEM
  110. 2017-02-01 Dirk Jagdmann <doj-at-cubic.org> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Passing encrypted base64 encoded value via href
  111. 2017-02-13 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  112. 2017-02-13 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  113. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  114. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  115. 2017-02-13 ISOC-NY announcements <announce-at-lists.isoc-ny.org> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS]
  116. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Patent Trolls Delux
  117. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Microsofts new stratergy to beat linux | | I
  118. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [isoc-ny] Fwd: EVENT TONIGHT: The Internet of
  119. 2017-02-13 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [isoc-ny] Fwd: EVENT TONIGHT: The Internet
  120. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [isoc-ny] Fwd: EVENT TONIGHT: The Internet
  121. 2017-02-13 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Guess this painting!!
  122. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Geological floods
  123. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Amature Radio
  124. 2017-02-13 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Amature Radio
  125. 2017-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Artificial Intelligence Gets Aggressive Without
  126. 2017-02-14 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Geological floods
  127. 2017-02-14 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <mat-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Tomorrow Is The Last Day for MAT Applications
  128. 2017-02-14 From: "IEEE The Institute"<tialert-at-ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The Institute Online: Can Amazon's Echo Device Help
  129. 2017-02-14 Charlotte Danes <charlotted-at-schoolingadvisor.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] NYLXS - The Free Software Institute
  130. 2017-02-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Just a reminder
  131. 2017-02-15 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] EMBC Paper Submission DEADLINE is
  132. 2017-02-15 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  133. 2017-02-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  134. 2017-02-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  135. 2017-02-16 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] chew on this
  136. 2017-02-16 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picute
  137. 2017-02-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picture
  138. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  139. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget
  140. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picture
  141. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Sherry
  142. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Name the Artist and the Work
  143. 2017-02-16 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget: | | it was not wasted !
  144. 2017-02-16 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget: | | RS: I thought you were an OpenSuse
  145. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget: | | RS: I thought you were an OpenSuse
  146. 2017-02-16 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget: | | RS: . Audience was about 70% male (
  147. 2017-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picture
  148. 2017-02-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picture
  149. 2017-02-16 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Next Picture
  150. 2017-02-16 ISOC-NY announcements <announce-at-lists.isoc-ny.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [isoc-ny] WEBCAST TONIGHT: The Future of Digital
  151. 2017-02-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Living with NASA
  152. 2017-02-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The MTA is so fucked up
  153. 2017-02-17 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The MTA is so f****d up | | Join the MTA and
  154. 2017-02-17 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [isoc-ny] WEBCAST TONIGHT: The Future of
  155. 2017-02-17 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] aptget: | | it was not wasted !
  156. 2017-02-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] (forw) QA & Tech Support Engineer (NYC)
  157. 2017-02-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Duplicity (2009 film)
  158. 2017-02-20 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #291 - FOSDEM videos
  159. 2017-02-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] movie of the week
  160. 2017-02-21 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] technologywith fossils
  161. 2017-02-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] exo-planets
  162. 2017-02-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] in other news
  163. 2017-02-22 Nicholas Rodin <nikbbwil-at-icloud.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] in other news
  164. 2017-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] in other news
  165. 2017-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] in other news
  166. 2017-02-22 James E Keenan <jkeen-at-verizon.net> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] February social meeting
  167. 2017-02-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: You cannot be removed without
  168. 2017-02-23 Nicholas Rodin <nikbbwil-at-icloud.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: You cannot be removed without
  169. 2017-02-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: I get way TOO many emails TO both
  170. 2017-02-23 Nicholas Rodin <nikbbwil-at-icloud.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: I get way TOO many emails TO both
  171. 2017-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: I get way TOO many emails TO both
  172. 2017-02-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] | | | Nick: I get way TOO many emails TO both
  173. 2017-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] decision making tree for a euler walk
  174. 2017-02-24 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Your EMB Weekly Newsletter is HERE!!!!
  175. 2017-02-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Peer Review
  176. 2017-02-27 James E Keenan <jkeen-at-verizon.net> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] February social meeting + upcoming
  177. 2017-02-28 From: "IEEE The Institute"<tialert-at-ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The Institute Online: Straight Out of Sci-Fi,
  178. 2017-02-28 Don Brinkman <Don.Brinkman-at-gov.ab.ca> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] visit

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