=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">

From:=3D"EN-US"> John Dunlap <ank">John-at-lariat.co>


Sent: 04 August 2020 15:30

To: Wesley Peng <nk">me-at-yonghua.org>

Cc: mod_perl list <get=3D"_blank">modperl-at-perl.apache.org>

Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]<=
u>

=C2=A0

The fundamental and, in my opinion, fatal flaws of m=
od_per are as follows:

> 1) Concurrency. mod_perl is pretty close to for=
ced to use mpm_prefork because very few perl dependencies are thread safe.<=
u>

=C2=A0

Concurrency in extreme conditions - is actually bett=
er when it comes to mod_perl than a number of other solutions =E2=80=93 e.g=
. nginx/starman. Apache/mod_perl is much better at handling large numbers o=
f simultaneous requests than the systems which
fork a number of small processes at start up to handle requests. You eithe=
r have to fork a large number of these or pray you don=E2=80=99t get large =
numbers of simultaneous requests. Some of our systems have long return time=
s for queries due to the terra/petabyte
scale of some of our backend servers.

=C2=A0

> 2) mod_perl cannot provide web sockets.<=
u>

=C2=A0

True =E2=80=93 we haven=E2=80=99t really found an ex=
cuse for web-sockets although our front end =E2=80=9CApplication Delivery C=
ontroller=E2=80=9D (which sits in the DMZ) can manage proxying requests tha=
t need sockets one way and others that don=E2=80=99t another way.=

There are still a lot of issues with web-sockets =E2=
=80=93 due to not all proxies handling these requests and so have to limit =
their use in a lot our cases [ a lot of our users are on networks that sit =
behind proxy/cache servers ]

=C2=A0

> Due to these reasons, my organization has start=
ed looking at ways to move away from mod_perl.

=C2=A0

We are using more off the shelf packages for some of=
our applications =E2=80=93 e.g. Wordpress as a CMS/Object manager, and yes=
we are also moving to more front-end centric applications. But many of our=
fundamental pieces of code are still working
in Apache/mod_perl as it is a better, more-reliable language to work with.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:43 AM Wesley Peng <ef=3D"mailto:me-at-yonghua.org" target=3D"_blank">me-at-yonghua.org> wrote=
:

order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">

greetings,



My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.

perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.

But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.

It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right peopl=
e

to do the webdev job with perl.

Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development

language, and choose the alternatives instead?



Thanks & Regards

--

uchet MS",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">John Dunlape=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">CTO |=C2=A012pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)">Lariat style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,15=
3)">=C2=A0">

-serif">=C2=A0

sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">Direct:ze:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">"_blank">john-at-lariat.coan>u>

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">

Customer Service:ial,sans-serif">

-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">877.268.666712pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">=3D"_blank">support-at-lariat.coa>>

-serif">6in; height: 0.625in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-1375627477317052034Picture_x0020_1" s=
rc=3D"cid:173ba537c304cff311">ily:Arial,sans-serif">

--=20
The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research=20
Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a=20
company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered=20
office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.=20

=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">

From:=3D"EN-US"> John Dunlap <ank">John-at-lariat.co>


Sent: 04 August 2020 15:30

To: Wesley Peng <nk">me-at-yonghua.org>

Cc: mod_perl list <get=3D"_blank">modperl-at-perl.apache.org>

Subject: Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]<=
u>

=C2=A0

The fundamental and, in my opinion, fatal flaws of m=
od_per are as follows:

> 1) Concurrency. mod_perl is pretty close to for=
ced to use mpm_prefork because very few perl dependencies are thread safe.<=
u>

=C2=A0

Concurrency in extreme conditions - is actually bett=
er when it comes to mod_perl than a number of other solutions =E2=80=93 e.g=
. nginx/starman. Apache/mod_perl is much better at handling large numbers o=
f simultaneous requests than the systems which
fork a number of small processes at start up to handle requests. You eithe=
r have to fork a large number of these or pray you don=E2=80=99t get large =
numbers of simultaneous requests. Some of our systems have long return time=
s for queries due to the terra/petabyte
scale of some of our backend servers.

=C2=A0

> 2) mod_perl cannot provide web sockets.<=
u>

=C2=A0

True =E2=80=93 we haven=E2=80=99t really found an ex=
cuse for web-sockets although our front end =E2=80=9CApplication Delivery C=
ontroller=E2=80=9D (which sits in the DMZ) can manage proxying requests tha=
t need sockets one way and others that don=E2=80=99t another way.=

There are still a lot of issues with web-sockets =E2=
=80=93 due to not all proxies handling these requests and so have to limit =
their use in a lot our cases [ a lot of our users are on networks that sit =
behind proxy/cache servers ]

=C2=A0

> Due to these reasons, my organization has start=
ed looking at ways to move away from mod_perl.

=C2=A0

We are using more off the shelf packages for some of=
our applications =E2=80=93 e.g. Wordpress as a CMS/Object manager, and yes=
we are also moving to more front-end centric applications. But many of our=
fundamental pieces of code are still working
in Apache/mod_perl as it is a better, more-reliable language to work with.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:43 AM Wesley Peng <ef=3D"mailto:me-at-yonghua.org" target=3D"_blank">me-at-yonghua.org> wrote=
:

order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">

greetings,



My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.

perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.

But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.

It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right peopl=
e

to do the webdev job with perl.

Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development

language, and choose the alternatives instead?



Thanks & Regards

--

uchet MS",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">John Dunlape=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">CTO |=C2=A012pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)">Lariat style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,15=
3)">=C2=A0">

-serif">=C2=A0

sans-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">Direct:ze:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">"_blank">john-at-lariat.coan>u>

s-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">

Customer Service:ial,sans-serif">

-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">877.268.666712pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">

-serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">=3D"_blank">support-at-lariat.coa>>

-serif">6in; height: 0.625in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-1375627477317052034Picture_x0020_1" s=
rc=3D"cid:173ba537c304cff311">ily:Arial,sans-serif">

--=20
The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research=20
Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a=20
company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered=20
office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.=20