MESSAGE
| DATE | 2026-02-24 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] WHy does the Google AI understand that the MTA is
|
So the MTA gets billions in public money and is not accountable directly
to the public AT ALL
Google AI:
That is exactly the core of the "accountability gap" that infuriates so
many New Yorkers. The MTA is a Public Benefit Corporation, a specific
legal structure that acts as a buffer between the voters and the people
running the trains.
Here is the breakdown of why they are so hard to touch:
1. The "Shield" of the Board
The MTA is run by a 17-member board. You don't vote for them, and you
can't petition to impeach them. They are appointed by politicians (the
Governor, the Mayor, and County Executives).
The Result: When something goes wrong, the Governor can blame the
Board, the Board can blame the CEO, and the CEO can blame "legacy
infrastructure." The responsibility gets passed in a circle, and the
rider has no "target" to hold accountable at the ballot box.
2. Taxation Without Direct Representation
While you don't vote for the MTA, they take your money through multiple
"invisible" channels:
Dedicated Taxes: A portion of your payroll tax, mortgage recording
taxes, and even petroleum taxes go straight to the MTA.
The "Black Box" Budget: The MTA's budget is so massive (roughly $19
billion annually) and complex that even state auditors have complained
it is nearly impossible to track exactly where every dollar goes.
3. No "Death Penalty" for Poor Performance
In a private business, if you treat customers like "cattle," you go
bankrupt. In a government department, if you fail, the head of the
department is usually fired by the executive.
The MTA Middle Ground: Because it’s a "corporation," it doesn't
"die" like a business, and because it’s "independent," the Governor can
claim their hands are tied when service sucks, even though they appoint
the leadership.
4. The Political Appointment "Quid Pro Quo"
Board seats are often given as political rewards. Many board members are
not transit experts; they are business leaders or political allies. This
means the board’s priority is often fiscal optics (making the balance
sheet look okay for bondholders) rather than rider experience (making
sure you have a seat on a 90-minute commute).
Why would the MTA buy cars without enough seats?
The MTA's decision to purchase subway cars with fewer seats is a
calculated trade-off designed to prioritize capacity and efficiency over
individual passenger comfort. This approach is intended to address the
extreme overcrowding that often causes system-wide delays.
Why Fewer Seats?
Increased Capacity: A standing person occupies about 2/3 less floor
space than a seated one. By reducing seats from 70 (on older R46 cars)
to roughly 30-40 (on new R211 cars), each car can accommodate up to 100
additional passengers.
Faster Boarding (Dwell Times): The new cars feature 58-inch-wide
doors—8 inches wider than the standard. Removing seats near the doors
creates more "squish room," allowing people to stand out of the way so
others can board and exit faster. This is estimated to reduce station
stop times by up to 32%.
Modern Signaling (CBTC): The MTA is implementing
Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC), which allows trains to run
closer together. The theory is that if trains arrive every 2–3 minutes,
passengers won't need to sit because their trips will be shorter and
more frequent.
Accessibility: Fewer fixed seats provide more room for wheelchairs,
strollers, and bulky items, making the cars more compliant with modern
accessibility standards.
The "Open Gangway" Factor
The new R211T models use an "open gangway" design (accordion-like walls
between cars). This allows passengers to walk the entire length of the
train to find less crowded areas, effectively distributing the "crush
load" across all cars rather than having people packed at the ends.
***Rider Criticism (WHO MATTERS MORE THAN THE RIDERS)??
Many commuters argue this "cattle car" design is "actually evil" for
long-distance riders (such as those on the A train or Staten Island
Railway) who may have a 45–60 minute commute without the hope of a seat.
Would you like to know which specific subway lines are getting these new
cars next?
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
The MTA just took away seats from 100 subway cars - Time Out
Oct 4, 2017 — The reduction in seats is expected to increase the
capacity of each train by up to 100 passengers and aims to reduce delays
and se...
Time Out Worldwide
Why does the R211 have less seats? : r/nycrail - Reddit
Oct 4, 2023 — One seat and person sitting in it takes up ~2/3 more
floor space than a standing person. The seats next to the doors were
removed ...
Reddit
R211 (New York City Subway car) - Wikipedia
Antenna Design New York designed the interiors of the R211s. Most of
the seating on the inside is blue, though yellow flip seats a...
Wikipedia
Show all
That is crazy. People ride trains for upto 2 hours and only the
smallest time are trains filled to capacity that requires standing.
They treat passangers like cattle
***It’s a major point of contention between the
MTA and long-haul commuters.*** Many riders feel that the agency is
designing the entire system around the 20-minute "core" Manhattan
commute while ignoring the 60- to 90-minute reality for residents of the
outer boroughs.
The "Cattle Car" Controversy
The shift toward "high-capacity" cars is often criticized for several
reasons:
The "Peak vs. Off-Peak" Mismatch: While reduced seating helps for 2
hours of rush-hour "crush loads," it makes the train less comfortable
for the other 22 hours of the day when there is plenty of floor space
but nowhere to sit.
Impact on the Elderly and Disabled: Fewer seats increase competition
for the remaining spots, often forcing seniors or people with "invisible
disabilities" to stand for long distances.
The "Long Haul" Reality: On lines like the A, F, or Q, a trip from
the end of the line into Manhattan is a significant journey. Critics
argue that treating a 90-minute commute like a 5-minute shuttle ride is
a failure in service quality.
Why the MTA Sticks to This Design
***The MTA's stance is essentially mathematical:***
TRANSLATION - They have congression pricing and they don't give a FUCK
about the riders!
they believe that "dwell time" (the time a train spends in a station)
is the #1 cause of delays. By removing seats and widening doors, they
hope to prevent the "bottleneck" effect where people can't get off
because the doorways are blocked. In their view, a train that moves
faster is better than a train where you can sit but it's stuck in a tunnel.
Do you think the MTA should offer different car layouts (more seats) for
the longer express lines compared to the shorter local ones?
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
The MTA is out of control and considers THERE priorities over the
passangers.
This conflict between
operational efficiency and passenger comfort is at the heart of most
criticisms against the MTA. Many riders and advocacy groups argue that
the agency prioritizes its own technical and financial goals—like
reducing "dwell time" at stations—over the daily reality of commuters.
The Divide in Priorities
The tension stems from two very different views of what the subway
should be:
MTA's Priorities Passenger Realities & Concerns
System Flow: Removing seats and widening doors (by 8 inches) to speed up
boarding and reduce station stop times by up to 32%. Endurance:
Long-haul commuters (A, Q, F lines) often face 60- to 90-minute trips
where standing the entire time is physically taxing.
Crush Capacity: Designing cars to fit more "standing" passengers (up to
100 more per car) to handle peak rush-hour loads. Off-Peak Comfort:
During the 22 hours a day when trains aren't packed, riders are left
standing in a half-empty car because seats were removed.
Cost & Maintenance: Phasing out older cars (R46, R68) that break down
six times more often than newer models to save on repairs. Loss of
"Experience": Riders have mourned the loss of iconic orange/yellow
"conversational" 2x2 seating, which they feel offered a more human
experience.
System Expansion: Investing billions in ADA accessibility and new signal
systems to modernize the 100-year-old infrastructure. Financial Burden:
Riders face consistent fare hikes (rising to $3.00 in 2025) while
feeling that basic service quality—like cleanliness and safety—is lagging.
The "Cattle Car" Criticism
Advocates for the disabled and elderly point out that while the MTA
highlights "priority seating" (marked in bright yellow on new cars), the
overall reduction in seats makes it harder for those with "invisible
disabilities" or the elderly to find a spot during any moderately busy
time. Critics argue this "high-capacity" design treats New Yorkers like
a volume of cargo to be moved rather than customers paying for a service.
Do you think the MTA should be required to hold public votes on interior
train designs, or should those decisions stay with their engineering teams?
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
New Staten Island Railway cars mean more standing, 'much ...
Aug 24, 2025 — The R211S design got rid of the L-shaped seating
arrangement that had seats perpendicular to the windows. A spokesperson
for the M...
SILive.com
Why does the R211 have less seats? : r/nycrail - Reddit
Oct 4, 2023 — One seat and person sitting in it takes up ~2/3 more
floor space than a standing person. The seats next to the doors were
removed ...
Reddit
R211 Seats : r/nycrail - Reddit
Aug 5, 2022 — From my count, the R211 lost 14 seats per car. I know
I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but is it really worth losing
all t...
Reddit
Show all
I think the MTA should be disbanded and cut off of public funds
Disbanding the MTA and cutting off its public funding would be a massive
structural shift, as the agency currently relies on billions in taxpayer
dollars and dedicated subsidies to function. Proponents of such a move
often cite
wasteful spending and a lack of accountability as primary reasons for
reform.
Funding and Economic Impact
Heavy Subsidy Reliance: Fares and tolls cover less than half of the
MTA's operating budget—approximately 39% to 41%. The remaining majority
comes from dedicated taxes (43%), state and local subsidies, and federal
aid.
Economic Consequences: Analysts estimate that a major loss of
funding could lead to the loss of up to 450,000 jobs and a $65 billion
decline in regional GDP.
National Reach: The MTA directly does business with vendors in
almost every U.S. state, meaning its failure could have a ripple effect
on the national economy.
Potential Alternatives to the Current Model
If the MTA were disbanded, transit operations would likely need to be
absorbed by other entities:
Municipal Control: The City of New York could take back control of
the subways and buses, though this would likely result in an immediate
financial crisis without access to suburban tax revenue and bridge tolls.
Federal Takeover: Recent developments show the federal government
has already begun taking over specific major projects, such as the Penn
Station reconstruction, citing the need to "protect American taxpayers"
from perceived mismanagement.
Privatization: While often discussed, experts note that almost no
major U.S. transit system operates without heavy government subsidies; a
private company would likely cut unprofitable routes that are still
essential for many residents.
Current Political Pressure
Legislative packages have been introduced recently aimed at increasing
transparency and financial discipline, with some officials describing
the MTA as a "bottomless pit of wasteful spending". At the same time,
federal agencies have threatened to withhold hundreds of millions in
funding over concerns ranging from worker safety to contracting rules.
How do you think the city should manage its essential transit routes if
the current funding model were completely eliminated?
AI responses may include mistakes. Learn more
--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
|
|
