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DATE 2005-08-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

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MESSAGE
DATE 2005-08-24
FROM From: "Inker, Evan"
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Open-source Mambo project faces rift
Open-source Mambo project faces rift

By Stephen Shankland
http://news.com.com/Open-source+Mambo+project+faces+rift/2100-7344_3-5841347
.html
Story last modified Mon Aug 22 11:28:00 PDT 2005

Backers of Mambo, a content management system used to publish Web sites, are
deeply divided over how to govern the open-source project--a split that
could send the software's development in two separate directions.
On one side of the clash is Miro International and the Mambo Foundation.
Miro is the company that originally released Mambo as open-source software,
and it helped establish the foundation earlier this month to govern the
software as an open-source project.

On the other side is the entire team of Mambo developers.

News.context

What's new:
Developers are breaking ranks with the foundation that oversees Mambo,
meaning that development of the content management software might fork into
two separate directions.

Bottom line:
The struggle over who steers development of the open-source software
underlines the promise and the pitfalls of collaborative work.

More stories on open-source development

The parties are wrestling over who should control the direction of Mambo's
evolution. It's not clear what the point of disagreement is, and the
developers declined to give details to CNET News.com. But from their public
statements, it appears their general claim is that the Mambo Foundation
amounts to a power grab and shuts them out.

"We believe the future of Mambo should be controlled by the demands of its
users and the abilities of its developers," reads a statement by
OpenSourceMatters, a group formed around the issue by about 20 key Mambo
developers. "The Mambo Foundation is designed to grant that control to Miro,
a design that makes cooperation between the foundation and the community
impossible...We, the community, have no voice in (the foundation's)
government or the future direction of Mambo."

Both sides have pledged to continue development of the Mambo software,
meaning that the project might well split--or "fork"--into two different
versions. The developer group insists Mambo development will be
unchanged--except that it will have a different name. On the other side, the
foundation says it's a good time to assemble a fresh team of contributors.

The possible fork shows both the promise and pitfalls of open-source
software. On the one hand, disgruntled engineers have the freedom to do what
they believe is right despite disagreements with corporate sponsors or other
programmers. On the other, such splits can dilute the efforts of programmers
and force software users to grapple with incompatible products.

"If people don't agree with the way a project is going, they have the
ability to strike off and produce something on their own. It really is a
Darwinian environment, where the best products will succeed," IDC analyst Al
Gillen said.

The drawback is that customers might get confused, if they're faced with a
range of competing products with similar roots, he said.

For their part, Miro and the foundation claim the power grab is in the other
direction. The idea of the foundation began with the developers themselves,
but Miro soon concluded that the developers' rationale for it "was to gain
control over the intellectual-property license, not protecting the project,"
foundation board member and Miro general manager Justina Phoon said in an
e-mail interview.

The criticism of Miro may have had some effect, though: The company on
Monday agreed to release some control over the Mambo intellectual property.
Miro founder Peter Lamont reversed his company's earlier position and
committed to transferring the Mambo trademark and copyright to the
foundation.

Mambo, governed by the General Public License, or GPL, is used to control
the content of Web pages. Numerous modules have been added, providing
features such as shopping carts, banner advertisements, customized maps and
chat forums. Miro, an Australian company that builds Mambo-based Web sites
and funds development of the software, released the once-proprietary product
as open-source software in 2000.

The developers departed this month, after Miro announced the Mambo
Foundation's formation at the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo. Miro said
Mambo project leader Andrew Eddie, among others, was on the foundation's
board.

Fault lines soon appeared in exchanges on Mambo's discussion lists. The
biggest blow came Wednesday, when the Mambo development team, including
Eddie, who hadn't joined the foundation board after all, broke ranks with
Miro and the foundation.

The Miro contingent is choosing to see the glass as half full. Phoon said
that a new developer team for Mambo would have advantages.

"Changing development teams is always a setback, not something anyone would
typically look forward to," Phoon said. But "we do believe that the setback
will become a benefit, as we recruit new blood and build a Mambo team that
will focus on the core goals of Mambo, to be a high-quality, easy-to-use
content-management system."

The new structure means that members of the community who were unable to be
involved before can now join the team, Phoon said, adding that the
foundation is actively recruiting development team members as well as
organizational and third-party developer members.

And in the first place, Phoon said, the idea of the foundation came from
Eddie and fellow Mambo programmer and OpenSourceMatters signatory Brian
Teeman. When Miro concluded the developers just wanted control over the
license, they chose to go ahead with the

foundation and let programmers decide whether to join. "We felt once the
project was adequately protected, we could involve the core team and let
them decide if they were truly interested in the Mambo project, or simply
controlling the license," Phoon said.

To decide their next step, the developers are working with the Software
Freedom Law Center, an organization that employs Eben Moglen, a Columbia law
professor and legal counsel for the Free Software Foundation. Moglen
declined to comment on the situation.

Now each side argues that the other faces the decision to fork away from the
core project.

"Whether the OpenSourceMatters team forks the code, or anyone else forks the
code will be up to them," Phoon said. "If they are successful in meeting the
demands of their users, then another great project is in the market. If they
do not, they will be like thousands of other projects that get started and
abandoned."

But Emir Sakic, one of the Mambo developers, argues the momentum is behind
his group. "All members of the core development team, the translation teams
and documentation teams as well as most--if not all-- the third-party
developers and major players are on the new site," he said in an e-mail
interview. "This is not a question of fork, it is rather continuing the
project under another name."

Reconcilable differences
Not all open-source software forks become permanent. One case involves the
GNU Compiler Collection, or GCC, the crucial programming tools that are used
to produce nearly every open-source software package.

GCC was run by the Free Software Foundation--the group founded by Richard
Stallman to create the Gnu's Not Unix (GNU) operating system. But in 1997, a
company called Cygnus Solutions that commercialized GCC, along with several
allies, wanted to take GCC in new technical directions.

"We were extremely sensitive to the potential negatives of forking GCC,"
said Cygnus founder and now Red Hat employee Michael Tiemann. "At the same
time, Cygnus had reached a point due to our work on GCC that we were
beginning to feel hamstrung by the GCC maintainer. We needed to do things in
GCC that had never been contemplated when the original GCC was designed."

The Cygnus allies were cautious. They tried not to antagonize the FSF, they
established a governing committee to run the project, and they deliberately
named it the Experimental GNU Compiler System to avoid the perception they
were hijacking GCC itself. By 1999, after the EGCS approach had proved
itself, the Free Software Foundation joined forces.

"This fork was more done for technical reasons than for personal or
political reasons, and it proved far easier to heal," Tiemann said.

But there are many cases in which forks haven't reunited. The open-source
BSD operating system, which stemmed from work on Unix at the University of
California, Berkeley, has branched into FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.

Other cases are up in the air. The Debian version of Linux has become the
foundation for several other versions, and many of the allies are now trying
to regroup through an effort called the Debian Common Core.

In the case of Mambo, a fork still isn't certain. Miro, for one, is holding
out hope.

The core Mambo developers presented their opposition Wednesday "before many
of them knew the facts behind the foundation," Phoon said. "Who knows what
will happen when they read the actual foundation documents and realize that
a lot of the fears they have been talking about were unfounded."


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  1. 2005-08-01 Paul Robert Marino <pmarino-at-wagweb.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: JobCircle Weekly Summary of New Jobs]
  2. 2005-08-01 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Suse 9.3 ISO's available on line....
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  4. 2005-08-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: JobCircle Weekly Summary of New Jobs]
  5. 2005-08-02 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Rating System for Open Source
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  7. 2005-08-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Its never too late for a good scam
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  9. 2005-08-03 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Never pay for software again
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  11. 2005-08-04 From: "Paul Marino" <pmarino-at-wagweb.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Never pay for software again
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  15. 2005-08-05 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Never pay for software again
  16. 2005-08-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RMS is looking for suggestions:
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  29. 2005-08-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worth Reading part 2
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  31. 2005-08-08 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worht reading Part 1
  32. 2005-08-09 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] 2005-08-09 Development Release: SUSE Linux 10.0 Beta1
  33. 2005-08-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM issue
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  62. 2005-08-16 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Software Freedom Day 2005
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  64. 2005-08-17 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New worms hit U.S. media outlets, companies
  65. 2005-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Novell to open Linux R&D center in Beijing by year end
  66. 2005-08-18 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Enterprise Firewall for free!!
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  68. 2005-08-18 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Board Meeting on Thursday
  69. 2005-08-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Novell to open Linux R&D center in Beijing
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  73. 2005-08-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM in the news
  74. 2005-08-19 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Repair labtop cd
  75. 2005-08-19 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Repair labtop cd
  76. 2005-08-19 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Repair labtop cd
  77. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] SuSE 8.2 is gone
  78. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Repair labtop cd
  79. 2005-08-19 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Repair labtop cd
  80. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [CFSG-forum] Seward Park HS]
  81. 2005-08-19 Paul Robert Marino <pmarino-at-wagweb.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [CFSG-forum] Seward Park HS]
  82. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [CFSG-forum] Seward Park HS]
  83. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [501techclub-ny] New Computer Network Security Course for IT
  84. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: RE: [Hardhats-members] VistA GPL]
  85. 2005-08-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good News from the Middle East
  86. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Message to Texas .... and this is how it happens
  87. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Book on DRM reviewed in the NY Times
  88. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More Brooklyn Texas Connections - This time Pre-historic
  89. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Digital NY History
  90. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] For those who haven't figured out Brooklyn yet
  91. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] WTC - Real Time
  92. 2005-08-20 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Good News from the Middle East
  93. 2005-08-20 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Message to Texas .... and this is how it happens
  94. 2005-08-20 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Message to Texas .... and this is how it happens
  95. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: JobCircle Weekly Summary of New Jobs]
  96. 2005-08-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Important Meeting for the Chamber of Commerce
  97. 2005-08-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Book Publishing in the 21st Century
  98. 2005-08-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Business Loans
  99. 2005-08-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More Jobs
  100. 2005-08-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Microsoft Woos OSDL for New Linux Offensive
  101. 2005-08-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Software Freedom Day 2005
  102. 2005-08-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Software Freedom Day 2005
  103. 2005-08-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I wonder
  104. 2005-08-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: GTM on OSX WAS: [Hardhats-members] more M read questions
  105. 2005-08-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The unending development of human civilization
  106. 2005-08-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [501techclub-ny] Seeking a Subcontractor]
  107. 2005-08-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The unending development of human civilization
  108. 2005-08-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: GTM on OSX WAS: [Hardhats-members] more M read questions
  109. 2005-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] W3C objects to U.S. Copyright Office's browser plan
  110. 2005-08-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [501techclub-ny] Job Announcement Revision: Geekcorps Mali
  111. 2005-08-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Open-source Mambo project faces rift
  112. 2005-08-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Comic Book Poison from Denver
  113. 2005-08-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Free Software in Healthcare is getting playtime form Med Econoics
  114. 2005-08-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imagine if it was a 110 story sky scraper
  115. 2005-08-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: JobCircle Weekly Summary of New Jobs]
  116. 2005-08-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Software Freedom Day 2005 Meeting!
  117. 2005-08-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Steve Jobs and the RIAAA
  118. 2005-08-29 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Software Freedom Day 2005 Meeting - Wed Aug 31, 2005
  119. 2005-08-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Digital Hope
  120. 2005-08-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Why the Patant Office needs new employees
  121. 2005-08-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM is Theft King Kong Style
  122. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] You have a friend in China
  123. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weiner Biography: This is not a endorsement
  124. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement:
  125. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Nylug Meeting tonight
  126. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Invitation-IBM IT Lifecycle Management Competitive Briefings
  127. 2005-08-30 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weiner Biography: This is not a endorsement
  128. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weiner Biography: This is not a endorsement
  129. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Question for NYLXS board members]
  130. 2005-08-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: [Hardhats-members] Starting point for next OpenVistA
  131. 2005-08-31 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Software Freedom Day 2005 Meeting - Wed Aug 31,
  132. 2005-08-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Software Freedom Day 2005 Meeting - Wed Aug
  133. 2005-08-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The end of a city as we know it...
  134. 2005-08-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] In case you didn't notice...this is bad

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