Fri Apr 26 12:04:35 2024
EVENTS
 FREE
SOFTWARE
INSTITUTE

POLITICS
JOBS
MEMBERS'
CORNER

MAILING
LIST

NYLXS Mailing Lists and Archives
NYLXS Members have a lot to say and share but we don't keep many secrets. Join the Hangout Mailing List and say your peice.

DATE 2008-05-01

HANGOUT

2024-04-26 | 2024-03-26 | 2024-02-26 | 2024-01-26 | 2023-12-26 | 2023-11-26 | 2023-10-26 | 2023-09-26 | 2023-08-26 | 2023-07-26 | 2023-06-26 | 2023-05-26 | 2023-04-26 | 2023-03-26 | 2023-02-26 | 2023-01-26 | 2022-12-26 | 2022-11-26 | 2022-10-26 | 2022-09-26 | 2022-08-26 | 2022-07-26 | 2022-06-26 | 2022-05-26 | 2022-04-26 | 2022-03-26 | 2022-02-26 | 2022-01-26 | 2021-12-26 | 2021-11-26 | 2021-10-26 | 2021-09-26 | 2021-08-26 | 2021-07-26 | 2021-06-26 | 2021-05-26 | 2021-04-26 | 2021-03-26 | 2021-02-26 | 2021-01-26 | 2020-12-26 | 2020-11-26 | 2020-10-26 | 2020-09-26 | 2020-08-26 | 2020-07-26 | 2020-06-26 | 2020-05-26 | 2020-04-26 | 2020-03-26 | 2020-02-26 | 2020-01-26 | 2019-12-26 | 2019-11-26 | 2019-10-26 | 2019-09-26 | 2019-08-26 | 2019-07-26 | 2019-06-26 | 2019-05-26 | 2019-04-26 | 2019-03-26 | 2019-02-26 | 2019-01-26 | 2018-12-26 | 2018-11-26 | 2018-10-26 | 2018-09-26 | 2018-08-26 | 2018-07-26 | 2018-06-26 | 2018-05-26 | 2018-04-26 | 2018-03-26 | 2018-02-26 | 2018-01-26 | 2017-12-26 | 2017-11-26 | 2017-10-26 | 2017-09-26 | 2017-08-26 | 2017-07-26 | 2017-06-26 | 2017-05-26 | 2017-04-26 | 2017-03-26 | 2017-02-26 | 2017-01-26 | 2016-12-26 | 2016-11-26 | 2016-10-26 | 2016-09-26 | 2016-08-26 | 2016-07-26 | 2016-06-26 | 2016-05-26 | 2016-04-26 | 2016-03-26 | 2016-02-26 | 2016-01-26 | 2015-12-26 | 2015-11-26 | 2015-10-26 | 2015-09-26 | 2015-08-26 | 2015-07-26 | 2015-06-26 | 2015-05-26 | 2015-04-26 | 2015-03-26 | 2015-02-26 | 2015-01-26 | 2014-12-26 | 2014-11-26 | 2014-10-26 | 2014-09-26 | 2014-08-26 | 2014-07-26 | 2014-06-26 | 2014-05-26 | 2014-04-26 | 2014-03-26 | 2014-02-26 | 2014-01-26 | 2013-12-26 | 2013-11-26 | 2013-10-26 | 2013-09-26 | 2013-08-26 | 2013-07-26 | 2013-06-26 | 2013-05-26 | 2013-04-26 | 2013-03-26 | 2013-02-26 | 2013-01-26 | 2012-12-26 | 2012-11-26 | 2012-10-26 | 2012-09-26 | 2012-08-26 | 2012-07-26 | 2012-06-26 | 2012-05-26 | 2012-04-26 | 2012-03-26 | 2012-02-26 | 2012-01-26 | 2011-12-26 | 2011-11-26 | 2011-10-26 | 2011-09-26 | 2011-08-26 | 2011-07-26 | 2011-06-26 | 2011-05-26 | 2011-04-26 | 2011-03-26 | 2011-02-26 | 2011-01-26 | 2010-12-26 | 2010-11-26 | 2010-10-26 | 2010-09-26 | 2010-08-26 | 2010-07-26 | 2010-06-26 | 2010-05-26 | 2010-04-26 | 2010-03-26 | 2010-02-26 | 2010-01-26 | 2009-12-26 | 2009-11-26 | 2009-10-26 | 2009-09-26 | 2009-08-26 | 2009-07-26 | 2009-06-26 | 2009-05-26 | 2009-04-26 | 2009-03-26 | 2009-02-26 | 2009-01-26 | 2008-12-26 | 2008-11-26 | 2008-10-26 | 2008-09-26 | 2008-08-26 | 2008-07-26 | 2008-06-26 | 2008-05-26 | 2008-04-26 | 2008-03-26 | 2008-02-26 | 2008-01-26 | 2007-12-26 | 2007-11-26 | 2007-10-26 | 2007-09-26 | 2007-08-26 | 2007-07-26 | 2007-06-26 | 2007-05-26 | 2007-04-26 | 2007-03-26 | 2007-02-26 | 2007-01-26 | 2006-12-26 | 2006-11-26 | 2006-10-26 | 2006-09-26 | 2006-08-26 | 2006-07-26 | 2006-06-26 | 2006-05-26 | 2006-04-26 | 2006-03-26 | 2006-02-26 | 2006-01-26 | 2005-12-26 | 2005-11-26 | 2005-10-26 | 2005-09-26 | 2005-08-26 | 2005-07-26 | 2005-06-26 | 2005-05-26 | 2005-04-26 | 2005-03-26 | 2005-02-26 | 2005-01-26 | 2004-12-26 | 2004-11-26 | 2004-10-26 | 2004-09-26 | 2004-08-26 | 2004-07-26 | 2004-06-26 | 2004-05-26 | 2004-04-26 | 2004-03-26 | 2004-02-26 | 2004-01-26 | 2003-12-26 | 2003-11-26 | 2003-10-26 | 2003-09-26 | 2003-08-26 | 2003-07-26 | 2003-06-26 | 2003-05-26 | 2003-04-26 | 2003-03-26 | 2003-02-26 | 2003-01-26 | 2002-12-26 | 2002-11-26 | 2002-10-26 | 2002-09-26 | 2002-08-26 | 2002-07-26 | 2002-06-26 | 2002-05-26 | 2002-04-26 | 2002-03-26 | 2002-02-26 | 2002-01-26 | 2001-12-26 | 2001-11-26 | 2001-10-26 | 2001-09-26 | 2001-08-26 | 2001-07-26 | 2001-06-26 | 2001-05-26 | 2001-04-26 | 2001-03-26 | 2001-02-26 | 2001-01-26 | 2000-12-26 | 2000-11-26 | 2000-10-26 | 2000-09-26 | 2000-08-26 | 2000-07-26 | 2000-06-26 | 2000-05-26 | 2000-04-26 | 2000-03-26 | 2000-02-26 | 2000-01-26 | 1999-12-26

Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2008-05-03
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Middle East Genetics and Political Echos
Middle East studies in the News More Bad Genetic Scholarship from Nadia
Abu El Haj

Anti-Racist Blog October 6, 2007
http://antiracistblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/more-bad-genetic-scholarship-from-nadia.html

Two hundred and forty-eight pages into the convoluted prose of Facts on
the Ground: Archaeological Practice and Territorial Self-Fashioning in
Israeli Society, the reader comes across this statement:

"to produce ancient objects as the heritage of the modern Jewish nation
requires the assertion, or belief in, a connection (perhaps even a
genealogical relationship) between the people who created the artifacts
in the first place and those whose identity they are seen to represent."

As it stands, this statement is something of a truism. Nations think
this way. When archaeologists discovered the round table of King
Edward III on the grounds of Windsor Castle there was a good deal of
excitement. Anglophones everywhere were intrigued because King Edward's
real life round table probably served as the model for the table in Thomas
Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, and it appears in all subsequent retellings
of the legend, a story that was already old when Malory told it. There
was a special thrill in England because most English people do indeed
believe in a connection (perhaps even a genealogical relationship) between
the subjects of Edward III and their own English identity. And they are
not wrong. The English nation is very old, and its cultural continuity
since the day when Edward III sat with his knights at his round table
is not in doubt. Englishness, of course, is composed of many elements,
but Windsor Castle, Edward III, King Arthur and the fact that despite
considerable immigration over the centuries, many English people today
do indeed have a genealogical relationship with King Edward's subjects,
are important elements of Englishness.

The same, of course, can be said of Jews. There was considerable
excitement recently when archaeologist Eilat Mazar, digging in the
part of Jerusalem where the ancient capital was located, uncovered a
governmental building of monumental scale dating from the period when
David is thought to have reigned in Jerusalem. Moreover, most Jewish
people do indeed believe in, a connection (perhaps even a genealogical
relationship) between the people who created that ancient building and
their own Jewish identity. And they are not wrong. The Jewish nation is
very old, and its cultural continuity since the time when the House of
David is known to have reigned in Jerusalem is not in doubt. Jewishness,
of course, is composed of many elements, but Jerusalem, King David,
and the fact that despite considerable conversion over the centuries,
many Jewish people today do indeed have a genealogical relationship with
the subjects of those ancient kings, are important elements of Jewishness.

The difficulty is that El Haj does not stop here. On the next page
she makes her complaint. Israeli archaeologist Magen Broshi and
archaeologists in general, portray "the Arab quest for early origins in
the archaeological record as being pure political polemic." To satisfy
non-Arab archaeologists, "Arab archaeologists would have to disavow a
paradigm that presupposes any genealogical and ethnic connection between
Palestine's ancient tribes and its contemporary Arab inhabitants."

At first glance, Abu El Haj's claim is for parity: if the Jews claim
that they trace their ethnic origin in the land of Israel back 3,300
years or so, Arabs have a right to make a parallel claim.

Arab ethnic continuity does indeed go far back in history, in
Arabia. Pastoral tribes speaking a language in the Arabic family ranged
north of the present-day Saudi border in antiquity, into modern Iraq ,
Syria , and Jordan . Whether they can be characterized as ancestral to
ethnic Arabs is problematic. They did not speak a language ancestral
to the Arabic of the Quran, but, rather, one or another dialect of a
long-extinct language known as Old or Ancient North Arabic, a language
that disappeared after the spread of Islam.

In Israel, Arab ethnic presence can be dated with precision to the Arab
conquest of 638 CE.

In denying any claim to "ethnic connection between Palestine's ancient
tribes and its contemporary Arab inhabitants," archaeologists like Broshi
are arguing from evidence. In demanding recognition for Arab ethnic
continuity in Palestine dating to before 638 CE, El-Haj is engaged in
pure political fabrication.

But she is also doing something else. In addition to ethnic continuity,
which Arabs unquestionably can claim in Israel from 638 CE forward,
El-Haj appears to be demanding recognition of a claim to historical
continuity based on a "genealogical… connection between Palestine's
ancient tribes and its contemporary Arab inhabitants." This is wrong
from both historical and genetic perspectives. Here's why.

There were a variety of peoples in the land of Israel in ancient times:
Israelites, Philistines, Canaanites, Phoenicians and others. These ethnic
identities all disappeared in ancient times, with the sole exception of
the people that called itself Israel. Genealogical descendants of the
other ancient peoples of the Biblical lands all assimilated into other
ethnic groups. No one living today can demonstrate ethnic continuity
going back to the Philistines, Canaanites or Jebusites.

Yet El Haj believes that the descendants of " Palestine's ancient tribes"
are still an identifiable group, the contemporary Palestinians.

"If today's Jews are descendants of ancient Hebrew and Jewish
communities who lived in and then fled ancient Palestine, the CMH and
other Y-chromosomes types shared by Jewish men must be closely related
to other ‘Middle Eastern' genetic polymorphisms. Contemporary Jewish
populations, in other words, must be (phylo) genetically related to
contemporary Arab populations. Given the biblical stories of Israelite
and Jewish origins, they must, more specifically, be related to Arabs
of Palestine in particular, and of the Levant in general."[1]

Here, in her first published paper on genetics, El Haj reveals a
remarkably primordialist and wholly unsubstantiated assumption that
today's Palestinian Arabs are the genealogical descendants of the
populations that lived in the area in ancient times.

It is, of course, true that if today's Jews are descendants of ancient
Hebrew and Jewish communities who lived in and then fled ancient Israel,
they must be related to the other ancient peoples of the region. The
difficulty is that we do not possess the genome of the ancient peoples
of the region. Except in a few places where ancient genetic material is
available (such as the bog people of northern Europe) genetic history is
done by comparing living populations and making historical assumptions
about who is likely to have lived where. To assume, with El Haj, that
today's Palestinian Arabs are so genetically identical with the ancient
"Palestine's ancient tribes" that Jewish genetic markers "must" match the
markers found in the Palestinian Arab population if Jews are to prove
Levantine ancestry, is to impute an improbable degree of both genetic
purity and historical stability to the Palestinian Arab population.

The biblical lands are in fact known to have had one of the most
tumultuous populations histories in the world, with repeated instances of
ethnic cleansing an population replacement. Many members of "Palestine's
ancient tribes" were deported by Sargon, and more were deported by
Nebuchadnezzar. The Hasmonean monarchs are known to have constrained
the Idumean and Ituraean populations to convert to Judaism, resulting
in a first century BCE population that was almost entirely Jewish
or Samaritan. Most of those Jews were deported in the massive Roman
ethnic-cleansings of 70 and 135 CE.

Some Jewish communities remained in place after 135CE, and it is
among them and the Samaritans that we would have to seek candidates
for descendants of "Palestine's ancient tribes" who might have left
descendants whose own descendants eventually became the Palestinian Arabs
of today. It is not merely possible but even likely that some descendants
of the Canaanites who were Jews by the Hasmonean period and became
early Christians did survive the Persian conquest, the Arab conquest,
and the Crusades, convert at some point to Islam and leave descendants
who are still living there today. They would have also have had to resist
temptation to flee to more stable lands at times of conquest, drought,
or during periods like the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries
when historian Rashid Khalidi tells us that the fertile coastal plain,
Jezreel Valley and eastern Galilee became depopulated because the failures
of Ottoman authorities allowed "the depredations of nomads" to drive
the fedayeen from the land. [2] Considering the history of the region,
it is unlikely that the descendents of "" Palestine 's ancient tribes"
account for more than a small fraction of the Palestinian Arab population.

Notice also that El Haj does not take into account the descendants
of any of the peoples who conquered and occupied Israel over the
millenia. The British, the Egyptians under Muhammad Ali, Ottoman Turks,
European Crusaders, Arabs, Romans, Hellenistic Greeks, Egyptians,
Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians all conquered and occupied Israel
at various moments in history. Long-term occupiers, such as the
Arabs, are particularly likely to have left disproportionately large
numbers of descendents in a process known to demographers as "elite
replacement." Moreover, given what we know of the behavior of soldiers,
even the briefest occupation leaves some DNA behind. These genealogical
connections interest El Haj not.

In addition to ignoring the repeated ancient ethnic cleansings and the
genetic descendants of conquerors, El Haj ignores the many well-documented
in-migrations to the land, beginning with the settlers sent by Sargon,
King of Assyria, who boasted of the people he sent to settle the lands
conquered from the northern kingdom of Israel: "I made them of one
mouth (language) and settled them therein. Assyrians, fully competent
to teach them how to fear god and the king, I dispatched as scribes
and overseers." Immigrants arrived with every new conquest and with
every economic boom, Muslim immigrants are known to have arrived to take
advantage of opportunities at several points during the Arab period. And
as the Ottoman empire contracted in the nineteenth and early twentieth
centuries, Muslim refugees from Circassia and Bulgaria settled in Israel
. Nadia Abu El Haj is not interested in these genealogical connections.

Nor is she interested in the fact that many of the genealogical
descendants of "Palestine's ancient tribes" who left the biblical lands
over the millenia will have left genetic descendants elsewhere. At the
time of the Arab conquest, to select only one instance, large numbers of
Greek- speaking Byzantine Christians are know to have fled to Sicily,
the Aegean islands and Anatolia. There progeny today may be Turkish,
Greek, Italian, or something else. Does this give them a right of return
to El Haj's Palestinian homeland? Their rights do not interest El Haj.

El Haj is interested in the "historical and geographic origins of
contemporary Jews," [3] because of her desire to prove that they are not,
in fact, "descendants of ancient Hebrew and Jewish communities who lived
in and then fled ancient"[4] Israel but, rather, a colonial settler
community with no ancient connection to the land. In her 2004 paper,
"'A Tool to Recover Past Histories'—Genealogy and Identity after the
Genome," she signals her desire to deny the well document history of Jews
as descendants of ancient Hebrew and Jewish communities who lived in and
then fled ancient Israel by consistently placing the word "diaspora"
in quotation marks, as in this sentence: "It is those enduring marks
that this field of genetic anthropology seeks to find, ones that might
indicate common (Hebrew) origins, ones that might tell us something
about the religious and kinship practices of Jewish communities as they
migrated and lived in the "diaspora." [5]

Her desire to prove that the Jews are not, in fact, a diaspora, not
descendants of an ancient Levantine population, is so strong that she is
willing to quote selectively from genetic studies that appear to support
her desired conclusion, and ignore studies that appear to negate her
preferred narrative.

Other studies that El Haj has not read or does not quote include ones
that provide evidence of Palestinian Arab ancestry more consistent with
their known history of arrival in the seventh century conquest than
with El Haj's preferred narrative of Palestinian Arabs as the primordial
people of the land. A 2001 study found Palestinian Arabs to more closely
resemble neighboring Bedouin than they do Jews, while Jews are more
similar to Armenians and Kurds, two other groups with ethnic continuity
that pre-dates the Arab conquest, than they are to Palestinian Arabs.[6]
A 2003 study found that Palestinians are like other Arabs in their high
proportion of sub-Saharan African ancestry, genetic markers that are rare
among the non-Arabs of the Near East, such as Jews, Azeris, Georgians,
Armenians, Kurds and Turks. [7]

More significant than either of these studies is the fact that we are
unlikely ever to be certain of the genetic identifiers of "Palestine's
ancient tribes," we merely work backwards from the DNA of contemporary
people of the region. But the living people of the region have not yet
been thoroughly studied. Those groups most likely to have deep historical
roots and relatively little opportunity to add new members after the
Arab conquest, such as the remaining Aramaic–speaking Christians,
the Samaritans, the Greek-speaking Christians, the Maronite Christians,
Mandeans and so forth, have not been studied at all.

And even more significant than that is the fact that one of the few
things that we know with certainty about genetic purity is that there
is none. People mix and have children. Even if one of those DNA testing
companies whose ads may well appear in a box on the sidebar of this
essay could tell you with certainty every one of your ancestors in the
400th generation came from Abyssinia (no test can actually do this,)
it would not make you the Queen of Sheba. It would not even make you
Ethiopian. Ancestry and genetic markers correlate with ethnicity, they
do not determine ethnicity.

And this is as it should be. Ethnicity is a matter of culture and
identity, not genetic ancestry. Most people, of course, share both
their genes and their ethnicity with their grandparents, but few of us
would care to live in a world where our ethnic identity was absolutely
determined by who our grandparents were. In such a world no immigrant or
grandchild of immigrants could belong fully to the nation of her birth. El
Haj, is the child of Palestinian immigrants to the United States who lives
with her Lebanese-British husband in London during summers and semester
break. They have a child. Should British authorities test that child for
genetic evidence of its descent from "Palestine's ancient tribes," and,
if the test is positive, send the child back to its homeland of Philistia?

This suggestion is not only absurd, it is morally repugnant. That being
so, why is Nadia Abu El Haj delivering papers on genetics with titles like
"The Descent of Men: Genetics, Jewish Origins, and Historical Truths"? And
why is she cooking the genetic data to a false impression that Arabs have
a deep genealogical connection to the land of Israel , and Jews don't?

The overt racial primordialism and overtones of racial essentialism in
her work ought to frighten everyone who stands against racism.

[1] Nadia Abu El-Haj, "'A Tool to Recover Past Histories'—Genealogy
and Identity after the Genome," Occasional Paper of the School of
Social Science 19, December 2004, Princeton . P. 6 [2] Khalidi, Rashid,
Palestinian Identity; the Construction of Modern National Consciousness,
Columbia University Press, 1997, p. 95. [3] Nadia Abu El-Haj, "'A
Tool to Recover Past Histories'—Genealogy and Identity after the
Genome," Occasional Paper of the School of Social Science 19, December
2004, Princeton . P. 6 [4] Nadia Abu El-Haj, "'A Tool to Recover Past
Histories'—Genealogy and Identity after the Genome," Occasional Paper
of the School of Social Science 19, December 2004, Princeton . P. 6 [5]
Nadia Abu El-Haj, "'A Tool to Recover Past Histories'—Genealogy and
Identity after the Genome," Occasional Paper of the School of Social
Science 19, December 2004, Princeton . P. 6 [6] Almut Nebel et al., "The
Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle
East," American Journal of Human Genetics 69:5 (November 2001), p. 1095;
Hammer et al., "Jewish and Middle Eastern Non-Jewish Populations."
[7] Martin Richards et al., "Extensive Female-Mediated Gene Flow from
Sub-Saharan Africa into Near Eastern Arab Populations," American Journal
of Human Genetics 72:4 (April 2003), pp. 1058-1064.

Note: Articles listed under "Middle East studies in the News" provide
information on current developments concerning Middle East studies
on North American campuses. These reports do not necessarily reflect
the views of Campus Watch and do not necessarily correspond to Campus
Watch's critique.
--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

  1. 2008-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Manhattan TOMORROW, Friday 5/2]
  2. 2008-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Attack on the NYLXS Server
  3. 2008-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meetings
  4. 2008-05-01 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meetings
  5. 2008-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meetings
  6. 2008-05-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  7. 2008-05-02 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  8. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  9. 2008-05-02 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  10. 2008-05-02 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  11. 2008-05-02 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  12. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  13. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  14. 2008-05-02 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  15. 2008-05-02 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  16. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  17. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Date???
  18. 2008-05-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 05.05.08]
  19. 2008-05-03 Matthew <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  20. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Middle East Genetics and Political Echos
  21. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] WHo owns that CD: Promotional CD's
  22. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Mono Controversy
  23. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More HP Memory advances: More human like memory
  24. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Virus Alert: Lets hope this is contained
  25. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] How a Monopoly Works: Switch to GNU ASAP
  26. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Digital Music still under assualt
  27. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Free Software developers and users CONTINUE to be completely marketing Naive
  28. 2008-05-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Date???
  29. 2008-05-04 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Date???
  30. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Mono Controversy
  31. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Mono Controversy
  32. 2008-05-04 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Digital Music still under assualt
  33. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Digital Music still under assualt
  34. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] What do you guys think?: Mark S Bilk - Stalking through your services
  35. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: FW: :Correction::.. Correction..:: LISTA New York Technology Trends Breakfast Series is May 7th 2008... Register Today!!
  36. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: FW: :Correction::.. Correction..:: LISTA New York Technology Trends Breakfast Series is May 7th 2008... Register Today!!
  37. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: FW: :Correction::.. Correction..:: LISTA New York Technology Trends Breakfast Series is May 7th 2008... Register Today!!
  38. 2008-05-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [dha-at-panix.com: [scratchcomputing-at-gmail.com: [pm_groups] Summer of Code Students -- Last call]]
  39. 2008-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ssu-at-nyccah.org: [501 Tech Club NY] Bulk computer hardware for NYC community after-school programs - Resources?]
  40. 2008-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [dha-at-panix.com: [marsee-at-oreilly.com: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, April 29]]
  41. 2008-05-05 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Attack on the NYLXS Server
  42. 2008-05-05 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  43. 2008-05-05 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  44. 2008-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ASUS EEE PC Disk Space
  45. 2008-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Phone Company
  46. 2008-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Disaprearing Internet Treasures
  47. 2008-05-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  48. 2008-05-06 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Phone Company
  49. 2008-05-06 From: "Paul Charles Leddy" <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Phone Company
  50. 2008-05-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Phone Company
  51. 2008-05-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Red Hat's future needs the GNU Desktop
  52. 2008-05-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  53. 2008-05-07 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Free Software developers and users CONTINUE
  54. 2008-05-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting tonight:
  55. 2008-05-08 From: "Paul Charles Leddy" <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Phone Company
  56. 2008-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New ASUS PC EEE and Micro Coputer User Group
  57. 2008-05-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 05.12.08]
  58. 2008-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hangout Subscription
  59. 2008-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] amavis information
  60. 2008-05-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [blu-at-vl.com: Re: Hauppauge HD-PVR]
  61. 2008-05-12 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] amavis information
  62. 2008-05-12 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] amavis information
  63. 2008-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Mono Controversy
  64. 2008-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Microsoft GNU Pitch
  65. 2008-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] grepping new DNS setup
  66. 2008-05-14 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Microsoft GNU Pitch
  67. 2008-05-16 From: "Paul Charles Leddy" <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Microsoft GNU Pitch
  68. 2008-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 05.19.08]
  69. 2008-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] eee and Linux and Me
  70. 2008-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Motherboard Wars
  71. 2008-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] What's a Pirate
  72. 2008-05-17 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] What's a Pirate
  73. 2008-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Choice of ISP
  74. 2008-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Choice of ISP
  75. 2008-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Choice of ISP
  76. 2008-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Choice of ISP
  77. 2008-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Choice of ISP
  78. 2008-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Fort Greene Friday, 5/23]
  79. 2008-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ellahelene-at-verizon.net: GNU/Linux-1]
  80. 2008-05-20 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ellahelene-at-verizon.net: GNU/Linux-1]
  81. 2008-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ellahelene-at-verizon.net: GNU/Linux-1]
  82. 2008-05-20 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ellahelene-at-verizon.net: GNU/Linux-1]
  83. 2008-05-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ellahelene-at-verizon.net: GNU/Linux-1]
  84. 2008-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Group Meeting
  85. 2008-05-21 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Group Meeting
  86. 2008-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 - Service Pack 1 and 2 parallel maintenance]
  87. 2008-05-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Group Meeting
  88. 2008-05-21 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Group Meeting
  89. 2008-05-21 From: "armando fonseca" <afonsec2-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Group Meeting
  90. 2008-05-22 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] speaking of meetings, here's interest from outside
  91. 2008-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  92. 2008-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 05.26.08]
  93. 2008-05-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  94. 2008-05-24 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  95. 2008-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  96. 2008-05-24 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  97. 2008-05-24 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  98. 2008-05-24 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  99. 2008-05-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  100. 2008-05-25 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  101. 2008-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Installfest - Memorial Weekend
  102. 2008-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jennifer 8 is on NPR
  103. 2008-05-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Vital Books DRM infested crap wants you to share
  104. 2008-05-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Williamsburg Friday, 5/30]
  105. 2008-05-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 06.02.08]

NYLXS are Do'ers and the first step of Doing is Joining! Join NYLXS and make a difference in your community today!