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| DATE | 2016-02-09 |
| FROM | ruben safir
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| SUBJECT | Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fighting bigoted and antisemitic editing on
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Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fighting bigoted and antisemitic editing on
Wikipedia
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There has been a history of allowing bigots and antisemitism to add
classical hatreful anti-Jewish rants on Wikipedia. This is particularly
true on the City of Hebron Page where it has been allowed the following
paragraph
Post-1967 settlement was impelled by theological doctrines developed in
the Mercaz HaRav Kook under both its founder Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook,
and his son Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, according to which the Land of Israel
is holy, the people, endowed with a divine spark, are holy, and that the
messianic Age of Redemption has arrived, requiring that the Land and
People be united in occupying the land and fulfilling the commandments.
Hebron has a particular role in the unfolding 'cosmic drama': traditions
hold that Abraham purchased land there, that King David was its king,
and the tomb of Abraham covers the entrance to the Garden of Eden, and
is a site excavated by Adam, who, with Eve, is buried there. Redemption
will occur when the feminine and masculine characteristics of God are
united at the site. Settling Hebron is not only a right and duty, but is
doing the world at large a favour, with the community's acts an example
of the Jews of Hebron being "a light unto the nations" (Or la-Goyim)
[210] and bringing about their redemption, even if this means breaching
secular laws, expressed in religiously motivated violence towards
Palestinians, who are widely viewed as "mendacious, vicious,
self-centered, and impossible to trust". Clashes with Palestinians in
the settlement project have theological significance in the Jewish
Hebron community: the frictions of war were, in Kook's view, conducive
to the messianic process, and 'Arabs' will have to leave. There is no
kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional Old Families
of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler presence in
Hebron.[210] =E2=80=94 Preceding
[[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a single brush stroke the jews of Hebron have been painted as
messianic driven radicals, which is exactly the same thing that
Christians had said for generations to justify repression all across
their territory. Every attempt to address this has been actively
resisted and the talk section records the following interaction
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk%3AHebron&action=3Dhistory=
submit&type=3Drevision&diff=3D703206693&oldid=3D703120677
:
+ =
=3D=3D Bigots allowed here... =3D=3D
+ =
+ =
This paragraph is a bigoted statement and should not be in wikipedea
+ =
+ =
Post-1967 settlement was impelled by theological doctrines developed in
the Mercaz HaRav Kook under both its founder Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook,
and his son Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, according to which the Land of Israel
is holy, the people, endowed with a divine spark, are holy, and that the
messianic Age of Redemption has arrived, requiring that the Land and
People be united in occupying the land and fulfilling the commandments.
Hebron has a particular role in the unfolding 'cosmic drama': traditions
hold that Abraham purchased land there, that King David was its king,
and the tomb of Abraham covers the entrance to the Garden of Eden, and
is a site excavated by Adam, who, with Eve, is buried there. Redemption
will occur when the feminine and masculine characteristics of God are
united at the site. Settling Hebron is not only a right and duty, but is
doing the world at large a favour, with the community's acts an example
of the Jews of Hebron being "a light unto the nations" (Or la-Goyim)
[210] and bringing about their redemption, even if this means breaching
secular laws, expressed in religiously motivated violence towards
Palestinians, who are widely viewed as "mendacious, vicious,
self-centered, and impossible to trust". Clashes with Palestinians in
the settlement project have theological significance in the Jewish
Hebron community: the frictions of war were, in Kook's view, conducive
to the messianic process, and 'Arabs' will have to leave. There is no
kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional Old Families
of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler presence in
Hebron.[210] =E2=80=94 Preceding
[[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
[[Special:Contributions/24.38.3.29|24.38.3.29]] ([[User
talk:24.38.3.29|talk]]) 01:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
+ =
+ =
+ =
Aside from being wrong on the facts, it follows the classical formula of
the Protocols of Zion.
+ =
+ =
+ =
When you a palestinian radical, why let a good snide prevent you from
being a bigot. Obviously all followers of Rav kook are Mechianic crazys
and none of the people who survived the purge of Jews would want any
return to the graves of Abraham and Sarah, or the Cemetary or Avraham
Avinu synaguage. It says so in this "dependable" source and all the
arabs and radical communists here are in consenus...
+ =
+ =
+ =
02:54, 4 February 2016
(UTC)[[Special:Contributions/96.57.23.82|96.57.23.82]] ([[User
talk:96.57.23.82|talk]])
+ =
+ =
the stupid article even talks against itself. It says here:
+ =
+ =
There is no kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional
Old Families of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler
presence in Hebron.[210] - which is obviously wrong and bias when there
are chabbadnicks there directly related to previous Jewish families that
lived there... and then it more accurately says here:
+ =
+ =
+ =
Survivors and descendants of the prior community are mixed. Some support
the project of Jewish redevelopment, others commend living in peace with
Hebronite Arabs, while a third group recommend a full pullout.[181]
Descendants supporting the latter views have met with Palestinian
leaders in Hebron.[182] In 1997 one group of descendants dissociated
themselves from the settlers by calling them an obstacle to peace.[182]
On May 15, 2006, a member of a group who is a direct descendant of the
1929 refugees[183] urged the government to continue its support of
Jewish settlement, and allow the return of eight families evacuated the
previous January from homes they set up in emptied shops near the
Avraham Avinu neighborhood.[181] Beit HaShalom, established in 2007
under disputed circumstances, was under court orders permitting its
forced evacuation.[184][185][186][187] All the Jewish settlers were
expelled on December 3, 2008.[188]
+ =
+ =
+ =
So why allow thew continuing bigotry in this article? class=3D"autosigned">=E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsign=
ed]]
comment added by [[Special:Contributions/96.57.23.82|96.57.23.82]]
([[User talk:96.57.23.82|talk]]) 03:35, 4 February 2016
(UTC)
+ =
+ =
=
=
=
{{Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement}}
=
{{Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement}}
Line 45: Line 71:
=
:Thanks for raising that. I don't think that an association with the
Electronic Intifada translates into a badge of unreliability
automatically. One looks at the quality of the source and its publisher
first. One might note that the Armistice allowed (technically) Jewish
visits to the Western Wall, but in practice this never occurred. It is
never mentioned that Jordan banned all visits by Muslims in Israel to
East Jerusalem as well, so that ban in practice was not resttricted to
Jew, but to all those on the other side of the line, pious Muslims as
well. These issues are very complex: throughout that period, any
Palestinian of 700,000 trying to get back 'home' was branded as an
'infilitrator' and could be shot on sight within Israel (compare the
standard Zionist narrative of the wretched fate of Jews attempting to
dodge the British Mandatory authorities to reach Palestine. The latter
is narrated with bitterness (understandably so), the former, which is
identical in its motivations, is dismissed by as fine an historian as
Benny Morris with a broadbush confusion of desperate nostalgia for one's
roots and homeland and house as 'infiltration' and the borderlines
between 'nostalgia' and 'terrorism' blurred. The endless border
incidents certainly affected the application of policies and promises
given in 1949. But your point specifically on Hebron merits attention,
and we'll have to look further into it.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]]
([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
=
:Thanks for raising that. I don't think that an association with the
Electronic Intifada translates into a badge of unreliability
automatically. One looks at the quality of the source and its publisher
first. One might note that the Armistice allowed (technically) Jewish
visits to the Western Wall, but in practice this never occurred. It is
never mentioned that Jordan banned all visits by Muslims in Israel to
East Jerusalem as well, so that ban in practice was not resttricted to
Jew, but to all those on the other side of the line, pious Muslims as
well. These issues are very complex: throughout that period, any
Palestinian of 700,000 trying to get back 'home' was branded as an
'infilitrator' and could be shot on sight within Israel (compare the
standard Zionist narrative of the wretched fate of Jews attempting to
dodge the British Mandatory authorities to reach Palestine. The latter
is narrated with bitterness (understandably so), the former, which is
identical in its motivations, is dismissed by as fine an historian as
Benny Morris with a broadbush confusion of desperate nostalgia for one's
roots and homeland and house as 'infiltration' and the borderlines
between 'nostalgia' and 'terrorism' blurred. The endless border
incidents certainly affected the application of policies and promises
given in 1949. But your point specifically on Hebron merits attention,
and we'll have to look further into it.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]]
([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
=
::Electronic Intifada is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denial site that
promotes terrorism. Anyone associated with that site is a racist and
thus not a reliable source. =E2=80=94 Preceding
[[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
[[Special:Contributions/200.93.31.26|200.93.31.26]] ([[User
talk:200.93.31.26|talk]]) 06:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
=
::Electronic Intifada is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denial site that
promotes terrorism. Anyone associated with that site is a racist and
thus not a reliable source. =E2=80=94 Preceding
[[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
[[Special:Contributions/200.93.31.26|200.93.31.26]] ([[User
talk:200.93.31.26|talk]]) 06:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
+ =
+ =
This article is filled with anti-Semitic sources and needs a big purging
by a professional editor. =E2=80=94 Prece=
ding
[[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
[[Special:Contributions/24.38.3.29|24.38.3.29]] ([[User
talk:24.38.3.29|talk]]) 01:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About a half dozen editors have now tried to correct this article, even
though it even contradicts itself, but the results continue to be
banishments from editing. This has become a serious problem and it any
effort to address it is welcome.
This has been classified as disruptive editing..
Ruben
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