MESSAGE
DATE | 2016-02-09 |
FROM | ruben safir
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SUBJECT | Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fighting bigoted and antisemitic editing on
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From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Feb 21 01:23:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: archive-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from www.mrbrklyn.com (www.mrbrklyn.com [96.57.23.82]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA7C163D97; Sun, 21 Feb 2016 01:23:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: hangout-at-nylxs.com Delivered-To: hangout-at-nylxs.com Received: from [10.0.0.19] (stat13.mrbrklyn.com [10.0.0.19]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD9516112B for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 14:10:54 -0500 (EST) Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.moderated X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.panix.com:119 From: ruben safir Message-ID: <56BA39BE.6070306-at-mrbrklyn.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 14:10:54 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 00:50:15 -0500 Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fighting bigoted and antisemitic editing on Wikipedia X-BeenThere: hangout-at-nylxs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: NYLXS Discussions List List-Id: NYLXS Discussions List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sender: "hangout"
There has been a history of allowing bigots and antisemitism to add classical hatreful anti-Jewish rants on Wikipedia. This is particularly true on the City of Hebron Page where it has been allowed the following paragraph
Post-1967 settlement was impelled by theological doctrines developed in the Mercaz HaRav Kook under both its founder Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, and his son Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, according to which the Land of Israel is holy, the people, endowed with a divine spark, are holy, and that the messianic Age of Redemption has arrived, requiring that the Land and People be united in occupying the land and fulfilling the commandments. Hebron has a particular role in the unfolding 'cosmic drama': traditions hold that Abraham purchased land there, that King David was its king, and the tomb of Abraham covers the entrance to the Garden of Eden, and is a site excavated by Adam, who, with Eve, is buried there. Redemption will occur when the feminine and masculine characteristics of God are united at the site. Settling Hebron is not only a right and duty, but is doing the world at large a favour, with the community's acts an example of the Jews of Hebron being "a light unto the nations" (Or la-Goyim) [210] and bringing about their redemption, even if this means breaching secular laws, expressed in religiously motivated violence towards Palestinians, who are widely viewed as "mendacious, vicious, self-centered, and impossible to trust". Clashes with Palestinians in the settlement project have theological significance in the Jewish Hebron community: the frictions of war were, in Kook's view, conducive to the messianic process, and 'Arabs' will have to leave. There is no kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional Old Families of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler presence in Hebron.[210] =E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In a single brush stroke the jews of Hebron have been painted as messianic driven radicals, which is exactly the same thing that Christians had said for generations to justify repression all across their territory. Every attempt to address this has been actively resisted and the talk section records the following interaction
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=3DTalk%3AHebron&action=3Dhistory= submit&type=3Drevision&diff=3D703206693&oldid=3D703120677
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=3D=3D Bigots allowed here... =3D=3D + =
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This paragraph is a bigoted statement and should not be in wikipedea + =
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Post-1967 settlement was impelled by theological doctrines developed in the Mercaz HaRav Kook under both its founder Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, and his son Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook, according to which the Land of Israel is holy, the people, endowed with a divine spark, are holy, and that the messianic Age of Redemption has arrived, requiring that the Land and People be united in occupying the land and fulfilling the commandments. Hebron has a particular role in the unfolding 'cosmic drama': traditions hold that Abraham purchased land there, that King David was its king, and the tomb of Abraham covers the entrance to the Garden of Eden, and is a site excavated by Adam, who, with Eve, is buried there. Redemption will occur when the feminine and masculine characteristics of God are united at the site. Settling Hebron is not only a right and duty, but is doing the world at large a favour, with the community's acts an example of the Jews of Hebron being "a light unto the nations" (Or la-Goyim) [210] and bringing about their redemption, even if this means breaching secular laws, expressed in religiously motivated violence towards Palestinians, who are widely viewed as "mendacious, vicious, self-centered, and impossible to trust". Clashes with Palestinians in the settlement project have theological significance in the Jewish Hebron community: the frictions of war were, in Kook's view, conducive to the messianic process, and 'Arabs' will have to leave. There is no kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional Old Families of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler presence in Hebron.[210] =E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.38.3.29|24.38.3.29]] ([[User talk:24.38.3.29|talk]]) 01:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC) + =
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Aside from being wrong on the facts, it follows the classical formula of the Protocols of Zion. + =
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When you a palestinian radical, why let a good snide prevent you from being a bigot. Obviously all followers of Rav kook are Mechianic crazys and none of the people who survived the purge of Jews would want any return to the graves of Abraham and Sarah, or the Cemetary or Avraham Avinu synaguage. It says so in this "dependable" source and all the arabs and radical communists here are in consenus... + =
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02:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[[Special:Contributions/96.57.23.82|96.57.23.82]] ([[User talk:96.57.23.82|talk]]) + =
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the stupid article even talks against itself. It says here: + =
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There is no kin connection between the new settlers and the traditional Old Families of Jewish Hebronites, who vigorously oppose the new settler presence in Hebron.[210] - which is obviously wrong and bias when there are chabbadnicks there directly related to previous Jewish families that lived there... and then it more accurately says here: + =
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Survivors and descendants of the prior community are mixed. Some support the project of Jewish redevelopment, others commend living in peace with Hebronite Arabs, while a third group recommend a full pullout.[181] Descendants supporting the latter views have met with Palestinian leaders in Hebron.[182] In 1997 one group of descendants dissociated themselves from the settlers by calling them an obstacle to peace.[182] On May 15, 2006, a member of a group who is a direct descendant of the 1929 refugees[183] urged the government to continue its support of Jewish settlement, and allow the return of eight families evacuated the previous January from homes they set up in emptied shops near the Avraham Avinu neighborhood.[181] Beit HaShalom, established in 2007 under disputed circumstances, was under court orders permitting its forced evacuation.[184][185][186][187] All the Jewish settlers were expelled on December 3, 2008.[188] + =
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So why allow thew continuing bigotry in this article? class=3D"autosigned">=E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsign= ed]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/96.57.23.82|96.57.23.82]] ([[User talk:96.57.23.82|talk]]) 03:35, 4 February 2016 (UTC) + =
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{{Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement}} =
{{Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement}} Line 45: Line 71: =
:Thanks for raising that. I don't think that an association with the Electronic Intifada translates into a badge of unreliability automatically. One looks at the quality of the source and its publisher first. One might note that the Armistice allowed (technically) Jewish visits to the Western Wall, but in practice this never occurred. It is never mentioned that Jordan banned all visits by Muslims in Israel to East Jerusalem as well, so that ban in practice was not resttricted to Jew, but to all those on the other side of the line, pious Muslims as well. These issues are very complex: throughout that period, any Palestinian of 700,000 trying to get back 'home' was branded as an 'infilitrator' and could be shot on sight within Israel (compare the standard Zionist narrative of the wretched fate of Jews attempting to dodge the British Mandatory authorities to reach Palestine. The latter is narrated with bitterness (understandably so), the former, which is identical in its motivations, is dismissed by as fine an historian as Benny Morris with a broadbush confusion of desperate nostalgia for one's roots and homeland and house as 'infiltration' and the borderlines between 'nostalgia' and 'terrorism' blurred. The endless border incidents certainly affected the application of policies and promises given in 1949. But your point specifically on Hebron merits attention, and we'll have to look further into it.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC) =
:Thanks for raising that. I don't think that an association with the Electronic Intifada translates into a badge of unreliability automatically. One looks at the quality of the source and its publisher first. One might note that the Armistice allowed (technically) Jewish visits to the Western Wall, but in practice this never occurred. It is never mentioned that Jordan banned all visits by Muslims in Israel to East Jerusalem as well, so that ban in practice was not resttricted to Jew, but to all those on the other side of the line, pious Muslims as well. These issues are very complex: throughout that period, any Palestinian of 700,000 trying to get back 'home' was branded as an 'infilitrator' and could be shot on sight within Israel (compare the standard Zionist narrative of the wretched fate of Jews attempting to dodge the British Mandatory authorities to reach Palestine. The latter is narrated with bitterness (understandably so), the former, which is identical in its motivations, is dismissed by as fine an historian as Benny Morris with a broadbush confusion of desperate nostalgia for one's roots and homeland and house as 'infiltration' and the borderlines between 'nostalgia' and 'terrorism' blurred. The endless border incidents certainly affected the application of policies and promises given in 1949. But your point specifically on Hebron merits attention, and we'll have to look further into it.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 18:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC) =
::Electronic Intifada is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denial site that promotes terrorism. Anyone associated with that site is a racist and thus not a reliable source. =E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/200.93.31.26|200.93.31.26]] ([[User talk:200.93.31.26|talk]]) 06:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC) =
::Electronic Intifada is an anti-Semitic Holocaust denial site that promotes terrorism. Anyone associated with that site is a racist and thus not a reliable source. =E2=80=94 Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/200.93.31.26|200.93.31.26]] ([[User talk:200.93.31.26|talk]]) 06:26, 4 November 2014 (UTC) + =
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This article is filled with anti-Semitic sources and needs a big purging by a professional editor. =E2=80=94 Prece= ding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.38.3.29|24.38.3.29]] ([[User talk:24.38.3.29|talk]]) 01:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
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About a half dozen editors have now tried to correct this article, even though it even contradicts itself, but the results continue to be banishments from editing. This has become a serious problem and it any effort to address it is welcome.
This has been classified as disruptive editing..
Ruben _______________________________________________ hangout mailing list hangout-at-nylxs.com http://www.nylxs.com/
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