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DATE 2005-02-01

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Key: id Value: 506456

Key: archive Value: 2005-02-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2005-02-12
FROM From: "Martin, Jared"
SUBJECT Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
From owner-hangouts-destenys-at-mrbrklyn.com Sat Feb 12 12:39:12 2005
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Subject: Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:39:59 -0500
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The proprietary programming environment (libraries,
IDE's) I'm using is a very high- level program called kwrite and gcc. :-)
The rest of what you've said is very true, however. I feel I I've a good grasp of the fundamentals. I started studing on a version of pascal that ran in dos (can't remember the version) I realize that's nothing for lots of you guys, and c is definitly a more mature lang. But there were none of these programming environs when I started.
What is more, although I could be studing how to do 3d graphics with libs I don't begin to understand, you'll notice I'm instead studing the ins and out of working with sockets and streams using nothing more than the standard lib.

I do have a LOT to learn though, but as I whined many times already, nobody will provide me with info about the pricing of the classes! PLEASE ANYONE! Excuse my outburst. Thanks.

Sincerely,
*****************************
Jared Martin
IT Desktop Support
Davis & Gilbert LLP
1740 Broadway
New York, NY 10019
Help Desk: 212-237-1500
Office: 212-237-1504
Cell: 646-773-4138
Fax: (212) 974-7023
*************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Milo
To: Martin, Jared ; ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com ; billy-at-dadadada.net
CC: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Sent: Sat Feb 12 11:25:03 2005
Subject: Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.

A better anology would be that lawyers, doctors, CPA's, engineers, (and by
some accounts mechanics) do not just jump in to get their feet wet.
You are probably using a proprietary programming environment (libraries,
IDE's) to write your 'simple' chat program. You have been probably using the
'help' or 'more info' menu's that pop up to help you with your learning curve.
But you do not have the fundamentals of CompSci down, the fact that you know
other languages and not C proves that. C is the standard by which other
languages are judged against.

I see this all the time at school, kids are taking advanced C programming and
do not know the math or the fundamentals behind it. Discussing just syntax is
the norm and leaves students shaky on being able to wrap their minds around
what is going on in the background. In that advanced C programming class the
professor was explaining some of the math theory behind basic computer
science. I was taking copious notes during this lecutre, during the break a
student laughingly asked me 'did you take notes?'. I simply replied with a yes.
In the second part of the session the professor went on to a more advanced
topic and I was able to frame what he was saying against the theory he
explained previously. The student who asked me about the notes was forced to
ask questions which by that time seemed basic to me. The professor replied in
the way I would have expected him to, so I knew I was on the right track and
had the advantage the other student did not.

Billy has the benefit of being an engineer and is able to grasp programming
because he has the insight that comes with that kind of education.

There is a difference between computer programmers and software engineers.
That fact you will not hear very often because for some strange reason people
who have no direct benefit are trying to sell you on some proprietary
solution. Sadly this contributes to the fracturing of the computer industry
which results in poor products which is masked by the illusion of sound marketing.

Steve M

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:10:20 -0500, Martin, Jared wrote
> Well perhaps getting my feet wet isn't the best way to word it, but
> I'm already familiar with other programming languages and I'm well
> beyond hello world and scanf. This is the first program I've done in
> c (besides hello world). I've gotten warmed up to the use of
> pointers and strings even passing functions as parameters (nice!)
> I've actually figured out this very question, I can just use the
> stdin fd 0 in my select and then read with read. This wouldn't work
> for some reason the first time, but I've got it now. I actually find
> that I learn better by jumping in and trying to do what I've already
> done in other languages in this one. That's the way I learned
> spanish too, total immersion.
>
> I'd really love to taker one of the classes, but no one is willing
> to tell me how much it costs! Well, thanks for your help.
>
> Sincerely,
> *****************************
> Jared Martin
> IT Desktop Support
> Davis & Gilbert LLP
> 1740 Broadway
> New York, NY 10019
> Help Desk: 212-237-1500
> Office: 212-237-1504
> Cell: 646-773-4138
> Fax: (212) 974-7023
> *************************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ruben Safir
> To: Billy
> CC: Martin, Jared ; hangout-at-nylxs.com
> Sent: Fri Feb 11 22:12:10 2005
> Subject: Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
>
> This is an INSANE WAY to get your "feet" wet in C...
>
> Maybe Hello Word and learning the ins and outs of scanf is a good start.
>
> When you go to a movie, do you always come in during the final 20
> minutes?
>
> Ruben
>
> On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 19:32, Billy wrote:
> > Martin, Jared wrote:
> > > I'm working on creating a simple chat program to get my feet wet in c.
> > >
> > > I've been told its better to avoid threads, so I'm using select to monitor
> > > multiple connections from clients.
> > >
> > > How do I get the client to check for new data on both the network conn as
> > > well as input from the user without having one block the other?
> > > Should I use select on the client too or is there a better way of doing it.
> > >
> > > Perhaps recv with peek would work to check the socket, but I've not yet
> > > figured out how to receive input from the user without blocking and without
> > > checking for individual keystrokes.
> > >
> > > Suggestions/Links/Code would be very greatly appreciated.
> >
> > select will do it, but you probably also need to configure the terminal.
> > You will have to use tcsetattr to setup.
> >
> > You need to clear the ICANON and ECHO cflag,
> > You can to set c_cc[VMIN]=1 and c_cc[VTIME]=0.
> >
> > It's all explained here:
> > http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/glibc/libc_372.html
> >
> > Your client program will probably work best as a loop
> > doing select() on both the input terminal and the
> > server connection socket.
> > ____________________________
> > NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> > Fair Use -
> > because it's either fair use or useless....
> > NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
> >
>
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc


--
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____________________________
NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2005-02-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [meissner-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: curl buffer overflow in NTLM authentication (SUSE-SA:2005:011)]
  2. 2005-02-28 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [will_edit_for_food-at-mac.com: Upcoming FCC ruling]
  3. 2005-02-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Q&A: Author of Dude, Did I Steal Your Job? sounds off
  4. 2005-02-28 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 89, 28 February 2005
  5. 2005-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Autobiography of the Next President of NYLXS
  6. 2005-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Wanted Add - Female replies ONLY
  7. 2005-02-27 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Wanted Add - Female replies ONLY
  8. 2005-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Wanted Add - Female replies ONLY
  9. 2005-02-26 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Movie Tonight?
  10. 2005-02-25 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [hangout] Linux LiveCD Roundup
  11. 2005-02-24 Matthew <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] Linux LiveCD Roundup
  12. 2005-02-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [bruce.lai-at-council.nyc.ny.us: REVISED: Upcoming hearings by the Committee on Technology in Government of the New York City Council (as of 2.24.05).]
  13. 2005-02-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Linux LiveCD Roundup
  14. 2005-02-24 From: "Victor.Ortega" <Victor.Ortega-Mangan-at-newcastle.ac.uk> Subject: [hangout] Open Invite
  15. 2005-02-24 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Meeting Cancelled for tonight
  16. 2005-02-24 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Realizing the meaning of GPL software.
  17. 2005-02-24 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] The Future of NYC
  18. 2005-02-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Realizing the meaning of GPL software.
  19. 2005-02-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Realizing the meaning of GPL software.
  20. 2005-02-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Realizing the meaning of GPL software.
  21. 2005-02-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fw: College Board Schools recruiting teachers, guidance counselors, s ocial workers, paraprofessionals and secretaries
  22. 2005-02-23 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] VectorLinux 5.0 SOHO released (Based on Slackware 10.1)
  23. 2005-02-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Dice.Com Says Linux Career Paths Remain Strong
  24. 2005-02-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> RE: [Fwd: [hangout] meeting up on the 24th - confirmation!]
  25. 2005-02-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] FW: LinuxWorld Summit New York: Registration is Open! Register to day
  26. 2005-02-22 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Re: [Fwd: [hangout] meeting up on the 24th - confirmation!]
  27. 2005-02-22 From: "Victor.Ortega" <Victor.Ortega-Mangan-at-newcastle.ac.uk> Subject: [Fwd: [hangout] meeting up on the 24th - confirmation!]
  28. 2005-02-22 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] VectorLinux 5.0 SOHO released (Based on Slackware 10.1)
  29. 2005-02-21 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] bash and mail
  30. 2005-02-21 Matthew Hirsch <mph-at-dorsai.org> Re: [hangout] bash and mail
  31. 2005-02-20 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] bash and mail
  32. 2005-02-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] bash and mail
  33. 2005-02-19 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Subject: [hangout] Video drivers on suse3.2
  34. 2005-02-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] [ashv-at-kingsgames.com: Kings Games]
  35. 2005-02-18 Adam Kosmin <akosmin-at-nyc.rr.com> Subject: [hangout] RMS article
  36. 2005-02-18 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Need a copy of 9.2 both 64 and 32.
  37. 2005-02-18 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [hangout] [ashv-at-kingsgames.com: Kings Games]
  38. 2005-02-17 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] recycling and clustering...
  39. 2005-02-17 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [hangout] [ashv-at-kingsgames.com: Kings Games]
  40. 2005-02-17 From: "Victor.Ortega" <Victor.Ortega-Mangan-at-newcastle.ac.uk> Subject: [hangout] meeting up on the 24th - confirmation!
  41. 2005-02-17 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [ashv-at-kingsgames.com: Kings Games]
  42. 2005-02-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] meeting up
  43. 2005-02-17 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] meeting up
  44. 2005-02-17 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> FW: [hangout] meeting up
  45. 2005-02-17 From: "Victor.Ortega" <Victor.Ortega-Mangan-at-newcastle.ac.uk> Subject: [hangout] meeting up
  46. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  47. 2005-02-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  48. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] References and pointers.
  49. 2005-02-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] References and pointers.
  50. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  51. 2005-02-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  52. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  53. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  54. 2005-02-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  55. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  56. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  57. 2005-02-16 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  58. 2005-02-16 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  59. 2005-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] wblogs are BS
  60. 2005-02-15 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [hangout] FW: Open Circulation Edition Free Internet Voice Calls Firefox
  61. 2005-02-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Microsoft Tries New Pitch to Curb Linux Use
  62. 2005-02-14 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] First National Bank of Omaha throws Sun out
  63. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  64. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  65. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  66. 2005-02-14 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  67. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  68. 2005-02-14 dspira-at-att.net (Dave_att) Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  69. 2005-02-14 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  70. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Crossfire Client
  71. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Numnut Spammer with an open box at 69.50.209.126
  72. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Numnut Spammer with an open box at 69.50.209.126
  73. 2005-02-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  74. 2005-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  75. 2005-02-13 dspira-at-att.net Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  76. 2005-02-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  77. 2005-02-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  78. 2005-02-13 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  79. 2005-02-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  80. 2005-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  81. 2005-02-12 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  82. 2005-02-12 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  83. 2005-02-12 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Subject: [hangout] Could anyone help me find pricing for the offered classes?
  84. 2005-02-12 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  85. 2005-02-12 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  86. 2005-02-12 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  87. 2005-02-12 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  88. 2005-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  89. 2005-02-11 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  90. 2005-02-11 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Subject: [hangout] Monitoring input in simple chat exercise.
  91. 2005-02-11 knodom <knodom-at-shakescene.com> Subject: [hangout] Unheeded Warnings
  92. 2005-02-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [Victor.Ortega-Mangan-at-newcastle.ac.uk: hangout]
  93. 2005-02-10 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Judge slams SCO's lack of evidence against IBM
  94. 2005-02-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Crossfire Server
  95. 2005-02-09 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [NMLUG] Python tight loop causing massive CPU barfage
  96. 2005-02-08 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl and stacks
  97. 2005-02-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] mySQL dB Setup
  98. 2005-02-08 From: "rc" <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Subject: [hangout] mySQL dB Setup
  99. 2005-02-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Slackware 10.01 Released
  100. 2005-02-07 From: "Inker, Evan" <EInker-at-gam.com> Subject: [hangout] Part I: Corporate Desktop Linux - The Hard Truth
  101. 2005-02-05 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Subject: [hangout] Linux? What? www.linuxgoldcorp.com !!!
  102. 2005-02-02 From: "Martin, Jared" <JMartin-at-dglaw.com> Fw: [hangout] Future might be looking brighter
  103. 2005-02-02 From: "P.Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord-hs.org> Subject: [hangout] [Fwd: [TechForum] TechToGo IV]
  104. 2005-02-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Memory management
  105. 2005-02-01 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Memory management
  106. 2005-02-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Memory management
  107. 2005-02-01 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [hangout] Memory management
  108. 2005-02-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Memory management
  109. 2005-02-01 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Internship.
  110. 2005-02-01 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [hangout] move

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