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DATE 2003-12-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2003-12-09
FROM Ruben I Safir
SUBJECT Re: [hangout] part 6 or 7 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format

It's not like these corperate bozo's haven't been warned about
the usage of prioprietory software.

Screw'em

Ruben

On 2003.12.08 20:34 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Larry Blunk wrote:
>
> >
> > --- "Matthew T. Russotto" wrote:
> > >
> > > On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 01:03 AM, Jon O. wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0312/03120403microsoftisfat.asp
> > > >
> > > > Microsoft will soon be charging manufacturers of flash memory card
> > > > devices and those which use them $0.25 per unit or up to $250,000 to
> > > > use the FAT filesystem. For those who are unaware the FAT file system
> > > > was developed by Microsoft back in 1976 and has become the standard
> > > > file system for all digital still cameras. Microsoft owns patents to
> > > > the FAT File System but for many years hasn't even hinted that it may
> > > > one day decide to charge for it. These new licenses appear to come
> > > > into effect immediately and specifically make mention of 'compact
> > > > flash memory cards' and 'portable digital still cameras'. What a great
> > > > way for Microsoft to cash in on the most popular consumer products (as
> > > > if they don't make enough money already).
> > > >
> > > > Phil: Surely flash memory manufacturers can get around this by simply
> > > > not pre-formatting cards?
> > >
> > > It's not even that hard. Even if these patents have validity and
> > > applicability (something I doubt), all they'd need to do is make one
> > > FAT image using a legal program -- such as Windows itself -- and then
> > > block-copy that image onto their cards. Or even use a Windows machine
> > > to format each of their cards. Even Microsoft can't get away with the
> > > claim that the output of a patented device is itself covered by the
> > > patent.
> > >
> > > Most digital cameras use 8.3 filenames, and wouldn't be affected by the
> > > patents MS has revealed (though they darkly hint at others in process)
> > >
> >
> > Yes, but any patents in process can't cover something invented over
> > a decade ago. I did some investigation on this matter and it turns out
> > that flash-card makers use either the FAT12 filesystem (if the flash-card is
> > under 16MB) or FAT16 (which supports flash-cards up to 2GB). FAT12 was
> > created in 1976 and FAT16 was last significantly updated in 1987 (FAT16
> > originally only supported drives up to 32MB, DOS 4.0 extended it to support
> > drives up to 2GB). So the flash-card makers are using formats defined
> > over 16 years ago.
> >
> > There are apparently a few flash-card manufacturers that
> > are introducing 4GB flash-cards. These cards need to use FAT32 since
> > they are too large for FAT16 to support. FAT32 was introduced in 1996
> > in Windows 95 OSR2 to support drives up to 2 terabytes. Note that many
> > digital cameras do not yet support FAT32.
> >
> > The long filename support introduced in Windows 95 (and subject to
> > the Microsoft patents) is independent of
> > the underlying FAT filesystem (whether FAT12, FAT16, or FAT32).
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> > http://www.anti-dmca.org
> > ------------------------
> >
> > DMCA_Discuss mailing list
> > DMCA_Discuss-at-lists.microshaft.org
> > http://lists.microshaft.org/mailman/listinfo/dmca_discuss
> >
>
> ____________________________
> NYLXS: New Yorker Free Software Users Scene
> Fair Use -
> because it's either fair use or useless....
> NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc
>
--
__________________________
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Fair Use -
because it's either fair use or useless....
NYLXS is a trademark of NYLXS, Inc

  1. 2003-12-08 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Broadcast Media wants to kill internet
  2. 2003-12-07 Bill Putney <bputney-at-effective-tech.com> Re: [hangout] Kings Games FTP problems
  3. 2003-12-06 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Kings Games FTP problems
  4. 2003-12-06 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Copyrights and Copywrongs
  5. 2003-12-05 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] [draht-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce]
  6. 2003-12-05 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] linux usergroups in sao paulo, brazil?
  7. 2003-12-05 From: "michael howard" <mhoward-at-mailworks.org> Subject: [hangout] linux usergroups in sao paulo, brazil?
  8. 2003-12-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] BRAND NEW B'KLYN
  9. 2003-12-05 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Changing Winds
  10. 2003-12-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Senior Web Developer mod_perl SOAP (part onsite), United States, NJ, Egg Harbor Township
  11. 2003-12-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [draht-at-suse.de: [suse-security-announce] Discontinued SuSE Linux Distributions]
  12. 2003-12-05 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] [jobs-admin-at-perl.org: [Perl Jobs] Perl Programmer with SOAP:Lite Experience (telecommute) (telecommute), United States, NJ, Atlantic City]
  13. 2003-12-04 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] once again Pasha
  14. 2003-12-03 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] Pasha
  15. 2003-12-03 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] IRS
  16. 2003-12-02 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] IRS
  17. 2003-12-02 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  18. 2003-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Library Additions
  19. 2003-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  20. 2003-12-02 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  21. 2003-12-02 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  22. 2003-12-01 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  23. 2003-12-01 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board meeting
  24. 2003-12-31 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Israel eschews MS
  25. 2003-12-31 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] New York Partnership (fwd)
  26. 2003-12-30 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Subject: [hangout] Anyone want to come out for New Years tomorrow?
  27. 2003-12-30 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Perl/Unix Software Developer for Web Hosting and Software company (onsite), United States, NJ, Upper Montclair [jobs-admin-at-perl.org]
  28. 2003-12-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: The IT industry is shifting away from Microsoft
  29. 2003-12-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: The IT industry is shifting away from Microsoft
  30. 2003-12-28 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] Tech Night Tonight
  31. 2003-12-28 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] Tech Night Tonight
  32. 2003-12-28 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Tech Night Tonight
  33. 2003-12-27 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together - Mon Dec 29, 200 3 6:15pm
  34. 2003-12-26 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together - Mon Dec 29, 200 3 6:15pm
  35. 2003-12-26 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Light-hearted News of the Season - Only outside of New York
  36. 2003-12-26 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: RE: [hangout] My thoughts on LinuxWorld & the future
  37. 2003-12-26 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together - Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:15pm
  38. 2003-12-26 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Education Center and GNOME Sumit issues post-sumit
  39. 2003-12-25 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Heat off the RIAA
  40. 2003-12-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Subject: [hangout] Printer problem.
  41. 2003-12-25 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] My thoughts on LinuxWorld & the future
  42. 2003-12-25 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] NYLXS Education Center and GNOME Sumit issues post-sumit
  43. 2003-12-25 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Subject: [hangout] Big year for Linux in 2004?
  44. 2003-12-24 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] My thoughts on LinuxWorld & the future
  45. 2003-12-24 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Subject: [hangout] My thoughts on LinuxWorld & the future
  46. 2003-12-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your business?'
  47. 2003-12-23 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together
  48. 2003-12-23 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together
  49. 2003-12-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: RE: [hangout] Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your bu siness?'
  50. 2003-12-23 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: RE: [hangout] Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your bu siness?'
  51. 2003-12-23 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your business?'
  52. 2003-12-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] FW: NYTimes.com Article: Creator of Linux Defends Its Originality
  53. 2003-12-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together
  54. 2003-12-23 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: NYTimes.com Article: Creator of Linux Defends Its Originality
  55. 2003-12-23 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> RE: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together
  56. 2003-12-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] NYLXS Holiday Season Get Together
  57. 2003-12-22 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] White Box Enterprise Linux 3.0
  58. 2003-12-22 Michael Richardson <MRichardson-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] test1
  59. 2003-12-21 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Pics from the Gnome Conference
  60. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Pipes signs with New York Sun [dplist-at-danielpipes.org]
  61. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] meeting?
  62. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Technite TONIGHT!!
  63. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  64. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  65. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Happy Chanukah and Merry XMas to ALL!!
  66. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  67. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  68. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  69. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  70. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  71. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  72. 2003-12-20 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] Answering Internet Phone Service
  73. 2003-12-20 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Answering Internet Phone Service
  74. 2003-12-20 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] My new work address and phone number
  75. 2003-12-19 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  76. 2003-12-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  77. 2003-12-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  78. 2003-12-18 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
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  82. 2003-12-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  83. 2003-12-16 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  84. 2003-12-16 From: <akbar-at-jaal.org> Re: [hangout] Board Meeting?
  85. 2003-12-15 From: "Steve Milo" <slavik914-at-rennlist.com> Re: [hangout] Anyone Home
  86. 2003-12-14 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] God Bless America
  87. 2003-12-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Anyone Home
  88. 2003-12-13 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] is any one comming to tech nite tonight
  89. 2003-12-13 From: "P. Robert Marino" <rob-at-concord.altschools.org> Subject: [hangout] is any one comming to tech nite tonight
  90. 2003-12-12 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] html-at-ssc.com: Linux Journal Weekly Newsletter - December 10
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  93. 2003-12-12 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> RE: [hangout] Microsoft's New Toll Road (MUST READ STORY)
  94. 2003-12-12 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: Board and General Meeting
  95. 2003-12-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Mailing list not working
  96. 2003-12-11 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] grepping
  97. 2003-12-11 Steve Milo <slavik914-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Has sar been deprecated?
  98. 2003-12-11 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: Board and General Meeting
  99. 2003-12-10 Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Must read for those interested in copyright issues
  100. 2003-12-10 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Board and General Meeting
  101. 2003-12-09 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] NYLUG Workshop: An introduction to vim, Friday 12/12 -at- 6:15pm
  102. 2003-12-09 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] NYLUG Workshop: An introduction to vim, Friday 12/12 -at- 6:15pm
  103. 2003-12-09 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [nylug-talk] NYLUG Workshop: An introduction to vim, Friday 12/12 -at- 6:15pm
  104. 2003-12-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [hangout] IRS
  105. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] The RIAAs reign of terror is over
  106. 2003-12-20 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] The RIAAs reign of terror is over
  107. 2003-12-09 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [hangout] part 6 or 7 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  108. 2003-12-08 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] part 6 or 7 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT
  109. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Part 5 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  110. 2003-12-06 David Sugar <dyfet-at-ostel.com> Re: [hangout] part3 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  111. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Part 4 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  112. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] part3 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  113. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] part2 Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  114. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Microsoft to start charging for FAT format
  115. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] More on Spain's LSSI
  116. 2003-12-06 Mike Richardson - NYLXS PRESIDENT <miker-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Re: [DMCA_Discuss] Spain's LSSI: All websites must register
  117. 2003-12-11 Michael Richardson <MRICHARDSON-at-abc.state.ny.us> Subject: [hangout] RE: [fairuse-talk] [linux-elitists] Monday 15 Dec: first all-Open
  118. 2003-12-21 Ruben I Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [hangout] Fwd: [linux-elitists] Let's help Google get better results for SCO searches. [dmarti-at-zgp.org]

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