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DATE 2007-04-01

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Key: archive Value: 2007-04-01

Key: id Value: 530408

MESSAGE
DATE 2007-04-16
FROM David Sugar
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
From owner-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Mon Apr 16 21:39:37 2007
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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:36:46 -0400
To: Ruben Safir
Cc: David Sugar , Ron Guerin , hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
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There is no freedom at all as a practical matter if there is not
economic freedom. This speaks to me of the question this case raises
when put into the broader and proper context. One can argue whether
Vonage was a good or bad company, but that is a question for it's
customers and the market to decide. The market in this case is not
allowed to make this choice, or the choice of potential other current or
future companies, because a monopoly has stolen that away, both for
customers to choose, and the freedom to engage in a business. Free
markets cannot co-exist with monopolies, whether private or public, and
one can read this clearly starting from Adam Smith and working forward.

Ruben Safir wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 16, 2007 at 05:54:15AM -0400, David Sugar wrote:
> > I am naturally deeply concerned with this issue. It is a perfect
> > example of misuse of both the patent and legal system, and a poster
> > child for why software and business method patents should not be
> > allowed, period. Of course, it also effects an area I work in, although
> > it is certainly not the first nor will it be last patent issue facing
> > independent voip development and free software.
> >
>
>
> As usually, my brother and I think very much the same on this. To say I'm
> deeply concern is an underestimate. Verizon's ability, as a fact, to destroy
> Vonage through litigation closes a major route to alternate communications
> system by Verizon. It is very bad, in so many ways, for a monopoly like this
> to be able to weild this level of power in the political economy.
>
> People can say anything they want about Vonage, and who gives a shit. Amazon
> lost millions every year prior to making a thin dime and Vonage was signing up
> customers at a HUGE clip. And that has been completely shut down, not for business
> reasons, but because Verizon used the courts to shut down an entire technological
> venue for any company which doesn't have the legal power reserves that they can
> put out.
>
> It's crap.
>
> Ruben
>
>
> > Ron Guerin wrote:
> >
> > > Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > > Vonage CEO quits; firm will cut jobs, costs The company, whose survival
> > > > is threatened by a patent case, seeks a path to profitability. By James
> > > > S. Granelli, Times Staff Writer April 13, 2007
> > >
> > > Two things come to mind. First, the Verizon patents are invalid,
> > > despite the ruling in this case. I don't know how Vonage managed not to
> > > get them overturned since those with some expertise in the matter say
> > > the patents should never have been awarded in the first place.
> > >
> > > Second, I hear nothing but "Vonage sucks" from those who've done
> > > business with them. They can cut costs all they want, but that's not
> > > one the problems they're actually having[1], so it's not going to help
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > - Ron
> > >
> > > [1] They're losing money, but it's the _least_ of their problems.
>
> --
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>
> http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>
> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
>
> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
>
> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attacted at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

  1. 2007-04-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
  2. 2007-04-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
  3. 2007-04-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRMs last day - dont bet on it
  4. 2007-04-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  5. 2007-04-14 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  6. 2007-04-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Yo Ho - time for a meeting
  7. 2007-04-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  8. 2007-04-16 David Sugar <dyfet-at-gnu.org> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
  9. 2007-04-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
  10. 2007-04-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  11. 2007-04-16 David Sugar <dyfet-at-gnu.org> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bad news for VoIP
  12. 2007-04-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] FCC Broadband spectrum up for sale
  13. 2007-04-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Death of Web Radio
  14. 2007-04-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] AT&T history
  15. 2007-04-18 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  16. 2007-04-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  17. 2007-04-18 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  18. 2007-04-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Break In attempts on ssh
  19. 2007-04-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  20. 2007-04-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  21. 2007-04-18 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  22. 2007-04-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  23. 2007-04-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Break In attempts on ssh
  24. 2007-04-19 Billy <billy-at-dadadada.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  25. 2007-04-20 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Break In attempts on ssh
  26. 2007-04-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Break In attempts on ssh
  27. 2007-04-20 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Break In attempts on ssh
  28. 2007-04-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny Rose
  29. 2007-04-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Imus Campaign
  30. 2007-04-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny
  31. 2007-04-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM Free MP3s - Forbes
  32. 2007-04-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Next Level of Hacking - IRobots
  33. 2007-04-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hacking a Robot
  34. 2007-04-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny
  35. 2007-04-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Adobe's new Free Software Platform
  36. 2007-04-26 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny
  37. 2007-04-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny
  38. 2007-04-26 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Next NYLXS Meeting Thursday at the Killarny
  39. 2007-04-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting - Wednesday
  40. 2007-04-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting - Wednesday
  41. 2007-04-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting - Wednesday
  42. 2007-04-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting - Wednesday
  43. 2007-04-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Passover Meals
  44. 2007-04-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sound Analysis and CPU power
  45. 2007-04-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ron-at-vnetworx.net: [nylug-talk] Google speaker series(4/5): Luiz Barroso, Watts, Faults, and Other Fascinating Dirty Words Computer Architects Can No Longer Afford to Ignore]
  46. 2007-04-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [chris.travers-at-gmail.com: Saw your older SQL-Ledger posts]
  47. 2007-04-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [linuxworldexpo-at-idg.com: .org Pavilion Call for Papers Now Open]
  48. 2007-04-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] vote for the 10.3's slogan
  49. 2007-04-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] vote for the 10.3's slogan
  50. 2007-04-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] vote for the 10.3's slogan

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