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DATE 2018-03-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2018-03-05
FROM valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Mar 5 20:38:39 2018
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From: valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu
X-Google-Original-From: Valdis.Kletnieks-at-vt.edu
X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2017 with nmh-1.7+dev
To: Ruben Safir
In-Reply-To: <7cc29390-03dd-944d-827c-bdb286dc26ae-at-mrbrklyn.com>
References:
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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2018 03:50:19 -0500
Message-ID: <148676.1520239819-at-turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
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Cc: kernelnewbies-at-kernelnewbies.org
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1289026294=="
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Sender: "Hangout"

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On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 23:50:32 -0500, Ruben Safir said:

> Don't pretend to understand what I can and can not afford. Your not
> picking security policy for Google. What your failing to address,
> because you are so blinded to your own frame of reference, is that your
> solution leaves out well over 90% of the devices connected to the
> internet, some of those devices connected to things like nuclear power
> plants. Others are just VOIP appliances.

Give an example of a system - *ANY* system - where you *can't* afford
the time down for a reboot, but the downtime for a hardware failure *is*
acceptable.

If you connect something to a nuclear power plant and can't afford a reboot
time, what is your plan if the device fails entirely?

If you can't stand your VOIP box being down at 3AM when there's no calls
in progress, what do you intend to use for voice service if you're down
because a DIMM failed?

Don't confuse "the downtime for a reboot pisses me off personally"
with "if we take downtime at all, it's A Serious Problem". If it's the
former, then you have to learn that reboots are like changing the oil
in your car - refusing to do periodic maintenance will bite you eventually.

If it's the latter, and you *aren't* already doing things like HA to deal with
hardware failures, *you are being negligent*. And yes, we're talking in "court
of law" mode here for some things - if you knew that downtime would cause
damages (either physical or monetary) and you didn't do anything about it, you
better have a *really* hefty insurance policy covering negligence on your part.

And if you *are* doing stuff to deal with hardware failures, *then a reboot
is a non-issue*.

(And by the way - as I've mentioned, managing reboots is the *easy* part of
updating an Internet of Pwned Things device. The hard part is getting the
vendor to produce an update in the first place...)


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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout

--===============1289026294==--

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 23:50:32 -0500, Ruben Safir said:

> Don't pretend to understand what I can and can not afford. Your not
> picking security policy for Google. What your failing to address,
> because you are so blinded to your own frame of reference, is that your
> solution leaves out well over 90% of the devices connected to the
> internet, some of those devices connected to things like nuclear power
> plants. Others are just VOIP appliances.

Give an example of a system - *ANY* system - where you *can't* afford
the time down for a reboot, but the downtime for a hardware failure *is*
acceptable.

If you connect something to a nuclear power plant and can't afford a reboot
time, what is your plan if the device fails entirely?

If you can't stand your VOIP box being down at 3AM when there's no calls
in progress, what do you intend to use for voice service if you're down
because a DIMM failed?

Don't confuse "the downtime for a reboot pisses me off personally"
with "if we take downtime at all, it's A Serious Problem". If it's the
former, then you have to learn that reboots are like changing the oil
in your car - refusing to do periodic maintenance will bite you eventually.

If it's the latter, and you *aren't* already doing things like HA to deal with
hardware failures, *you are being negligent*. And yes, we're talking in "court
of law" mode here for some things - if you knew that downtime would cause
damages (either physical or monetary) and you didn't do anything about it, you
better have a *really* hefty insurance policy covering negligence on your part.

And if you *are* doing stuff to deal with hardware failures, *then a reboot
is a non-issue*.

(And by the way - as I've mentioned, managing reboots is the *easy* part of
updating an Internet of Pwned Things device. The hard part is getting the
vendor to produce an update in the first place...)


--==_Exmh_1520239818_14985P
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--===============1289026294==
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout

--===============1289026294==--

  1. 2018-03-01 From: "Free Software Foundation" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Free Software Supporter Issue 119, March 2018
  2. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  3. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  4. 2018-03-05 From: "APhA's Pharmacy Today" <PTdaily-at-aphanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] March 5,
  5. 2018-03-01 From: "Canarsie Courier" <emailsentby-at-icontactmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Inside This Week's Edition of the Canarsie Courier
  6. 2018-03-05 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #345 - Plenty of posts
  7. 2018-03-05 From: "IEEE ComSoc Meetings" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] IEEE GLOBECOM'18 Workshop Deadline Extended
  8. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  9. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  10. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  11. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  12. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  13. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  14. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  15. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  16. 2018-03-05 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  17. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  18. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  19. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  20. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  21. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  22. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  23. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  24. 2018-03-04 Alex Arvelaez <ealejandro-at-outlook.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  25. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  26. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  27. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  28. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  29. 2018-03-04 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  30. 2018-03-04 Alex Arvelaez <ealejandro-at-outlook.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  31. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  32. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  33. 2018-03-01 From: "SUSE" <news-at-suse.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?Open_Source_Software=3A_There?=
  34. 2018-03-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Look Ma, I invented the internet
  35. 2018-03-07 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Best Scam
  36. 2018-03-08 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  37. 2018-03-08 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Perl Conference 2018 in Salt Lake City:
  38. 2018-03-06 From: "[RSS/Feed] nixCraft: Linux Tips, Hacks, Tutorials, Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] nixCraft Linux / UNIX Newsletter
  39. 2018-03-06 From: "Linux Journal Subscription" <subs-at-linuxjournal.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] March 2018 issue to be released next week!
  40. 2018-03-08 From: "Canarsie Courier" <emailsentby-at-icontactmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Inside This Week's Edition of the Canarsie Courier
  41. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs are Rockerfeller University
  42. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs at Colombia
  43. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] jobs at robots
  44. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Your Tax Dollars at Work
  45. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The must significant news this week that will
  46. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] UDF Skywalker
  47. 2018-03-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] predictability and AI on PBS Nova
  48. 2018-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group -
  49. 2018-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [mothur] Reproducible Research Tutorials
  50. 2018-03-20 From: "Pat Schloss" <pschloss-at-umich.edu> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [mothur] Reproducible Research Tutorials with
  51. 2018-03-20 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  52. 2018-03-20 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  53. 2018-03-18 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  54. 2018-03-12 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #346 - Conferences, Workshops,
  55. 2018-03-19 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #347 - Happy belated Pi day!
  56. 2018-03-19 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Help get Perl 5.28 ready: test CPAN against dev
  57. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] urgent protest
  58. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] start the revolution
  59. 2018-03-21 From: "Georgia Young, FSF" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] LibrePlanet 2018: Last update!
  60. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] hipsters don't have kids
  61. 2018-03-22 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] DNA as a computer
  62. 2018-03-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  63. 2018-03-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Kill the Kings Highway SBS
  64. 2018-03-23 From: "Deutsch, Chaim" <CDeutsch-at-council.nyc.gov> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] THE DEUTSCH REPORT: News From Councilmember Chaim
  65. 2018-03-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #348 - Submit a grant application
  66. 2018-03-25 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [Perl Conference NA Announce] The Perl
  67. 2018-03-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] check out this con artist on reddit
  68. 2018-03-26 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] check out this con artist on reddit | | Need
  69. 2018-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] New GIMP release
  70. 2018-03-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] This is not the NYLXS I was looking for
  71. 2018-03-27 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  72. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Dream of a Free Phone ...
  73. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Happy Peasach and Holidays
  74. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Private sector discrimination enmasse
  75. 2018-03-30 FarSight Data Systems <msh-at-farsight-data.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Happy Peasach and Holidays
  76. 2018-03-09 Clive Holloway <clive.holloway-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  77. 2018-03-09 Clive Holloway <clive.holloway-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB

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