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DATE 2018-03-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2018-03-04
FROM valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Mar 5 20:45:40 2018
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From: valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu
X-Google-Original-From: Valdis.Kletnieks-at-vt.edu
X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2017 with nmh-1.7+dev
To: Ruben Safir
In-Reply-To: <80280427-f23e-ae30-a3cd-5230c7a5de06-at-mrbrklyn.com>
References:
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<80280427-f23e-ae30-a3cd-5230c7a5de06-at-mrbrklyn.com>
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Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 23:15:58 -0500
Message-ID: <118179.1520223358-at-turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
X-UID: 46784
Cc: kernelnewbies-at-kernelnewbies.org
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0922501139=="
Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com
Sender: "Hangout"

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On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 21:21:13 -0500, Ruben Safir said:

> I am not setting up a high availability cluster in my house, thank you.
> And fwiw, I've run systems for 6-8 years without rebooting on pc
> hardware. My little fanless fit/pc service running an intel atom had at
> one time run 5 years without rebooting. I only had a system fry once
> while it was up an running since the late 1990's until today, and in
> that case it was wild power surge and the hardware was up and running in
> 20 minutes with a swap out of the hard drive.

The fact that you've kept a system going for 8 years without a reboot
isn't proof that actually doing so is a good idea security wise.

> The linux kernel is integrated into dozens of devices which never see
> the light of day for kernel upgrades from PPOE routers, IOT devices,
> cellphones, VOIP boxes, electrocardiograms, menu displays for McDonalds,
> signal boxes on train systems, etc etc etc.

The big problem *there* isn't that a reboot is often required.

The problem is that the vendors won't ship a patched system to reboot *into*.

> What has been described is a huge security problem and your solution is
> a non-starter and doesn't help the broader problem.

I repeat what I said - if you can't afford a reboot because it's mission critical,
you can't afford to *not* be doing HA or load balancing or something.

The Internet of Pwned Things problem is with systems where a reboot *is*
feasible (are you going to notice if your light bulb reboots at 3AM when it's
off anyhow?), but vendors have no ecomonic incentive to provide fixes after
they've got your money (unless they can monetize you post-purchase - and most
people won't pay for a support contract, so the vendor's only realistic choice is
monetizing your data..)

And that's a totally orthogonal issue.

--==_Exmh_1520223358_14985P
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_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout

--===============0922501139==--

--===============0922501139==
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1520223358_14985P";
micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
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--==_Exmh_1520223358_14985P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, 04 Mar 2018 21:21:13 -0500, Ruben Safir said:

> I am not setting up a high availability cluster in my house, thank you.
> And fwiw, I've run systems for 6-8 years without rebooting on pc
> hardware. My little fanless fit/pc service running an intel atom had at
> one time run 5 years without rebooting. I only had a system fry once
> while it was up an running since the late 1990's until today, and in
> that case it was wild power surge and the hardware was up and running in
> 20 minutes with a swap out of the hard drive.

The fact that you've kept a system going for 8 years without a reboot
isn't proof that actually doing so is a good idea security wise.

> The linux kernel is integrated into dozens of devices which never see
> the light of day for kernel upgrades from PPOE routers, IOT devices,
> cellphones, VOIP boxes, electrocardiograms, menu displays for McDonalds,
> signal boxes on train systems, etc etc etc.

The big problem *there* isn't that a reboot is often required.

The problem is that the vendors won't ship a patched system to reboot *into*.

> What has been described is a huge security problem and your solution is
> a non-starter and doesn't help the broader problem.

I repeat what I said - if you can't afford a reboot because it's mission critical,
you can't afford to *not* be doing HA or load balancing or something.

The Internet of Pwned Things problem is with systems where a reboot *is*
feasible (are you going to notice if your light bulb reboots at 3AM when it's
off anyhow?), but vendors have no ecomonic incentive to provide fixes after
they've got your money (unless they can monetize you post-purchase - and most
people won't pay for a support contract, so the vendor's only realistic choice is
monetizing your data..)

And that's a totally orthogonal issue.

--==_Exmh_1520223358_14985P
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--===============0922501139==
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout

--===============0922501139==--

  1. 2018-03-01 From: "Free Software Foundation" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Free Software Supporter Issue 119, March 2018
  2. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  3. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  4. 2018-03-05 From: "APhA's Pharmacy Today" <PTdaily-at-aphanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] March 5,
  5. 2018-03-01 From: "Canarsie Courier" <emailsentby-at-icontactmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Inside This Week's Edition of the Canarsie Courier
  6. 2018-03-05 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #345 - Plenty of posts
  7. 2018-03-05 From: "IEEE ComSoc Meetings" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] IEEE GLOBECOM'18 Workshop Deadline Extended
  8. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  9. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  10. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  11. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  12. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  13. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  14. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  15. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  16. 2018-03-05 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  17. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  18. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  19. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  20. 2018-03-05 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  21. 2018-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  22. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  23. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  24. 2018-03-04 Alex Arvelaez <ealejandro-at-outlook.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  25. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  26. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  27. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  28. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  29. 2018-03-04 Greg KH <greg-at-kroah.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  30. 2018-03-04 Alex Arvelaez <ealejandro-at-outlook.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  31. 2018-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  32. 2018-03-04 valdis.kletnieks-at-vt.edu Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Year 2038 time set problem
  33. 2018-03-01 From: "SUSE" <news-at-suse.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?Open_Source_Software=3A_There?=
  34. 2018-03-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Look Ma, I invented the internet
  35. 2018-03-07 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Best Scam
  36. 2018-03-08 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  37. 2018-03-08 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Perl Conference 2018 in Salt Lake City:
  38. 2018-03-06 From: "[RSS/Feed] nixCraft: Linux Tips, Hacks, Tutorials, Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] nixCraft Linux / UNIX Newsletter
  39. 2018-03-06 From: "Linux Journal Subscription" <subs-at-linuxjournal.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] March 2018 issue to be released next week!
  40. 2018-03-08 From: "Canarsie Courier" <emailsentby-at-icontactmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Inside This Week's Edition of the Canarsie Courier
  41. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs are Rockerfeller University
  42. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Jobs at Colombia
  43. 2018-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] jobs at robots
  44. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Your Tax Dollars at Work
  45. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The must significant news this week that will
  46. 2018-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] UDF Skywalker
  47. 2018-03-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] predictability and AI on PBS Nova
  48. 2018-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group -
  49. 2018-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [mothur] Reproducible Research Tutorials
  50. 2018-03-20 From: "Pat Schloss" <pschloss-at-umich.edu> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [mothur] Reproducible Research Tutorials with
  51. 2018-03-20 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  52. 2018-03-20 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  53. 2018-03-18 Helen Fornazier <helen.fornazier-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] LKCAMP - Linux Kernel study group - volunteers
  54. 2018-03-12 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #346 - Conferences, Workshops,
  55. 2018-03-19 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #347 - Happy belated Pi day!
  56. 2018-03-19 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Help get Perl 5.28 ready: test CPAN against dev
  57. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] urgent protest
  58. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] start the revolution
  59. 2018-03-21 From: "Georgia Young, FSF" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] LibrePlanet 2018: Last update!
  60. 2018-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] hipsters don't have kids
  61. 2018-03-22 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] DNA as a computer
  62. 2018-03-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  63. 2018-03-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Kill the Kings Highway SBS
  64. 2018-03-23 From: "Deutsch, Chaim" <CDeutsch-at-council.nyc.gov> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] THE DEUTSCH REPORT: News From Councilmember Chaim
  65. 2018-03-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #348 - Submit a grant application
  66. 2018-03-25 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: [Perl Conference NA Announce] The Perl
  67. 2018-03-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] check out this con artist on reddit
  68. 2018-03-26 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] check out this con artist on reddit | | Need
  69. 2018-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] New GIMP release
  70. 2018-03-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] This is not the NYLXS I was looking for
  71. 2018-03-27 James E Keenan <jkeenan-at-pobox.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  72. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The Dream of a Free Phone ...
  73. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Happy Peasach and Holidays
  74. 2018-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Private sector discrimination enmasse
  75. 2018-03-30 FarSight Data Systems <msh-at-farsight-data.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Happy Peasach and Holidays
  76. 2018-03-09 Clive Holloway <clive.holloway-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB
  77. 2018-03-09 Clive Holloway <clive.holloway-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] ny.pm technical meeting: Wed Mar 28 at MongoDB

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