|FROM ||Ruben Safir
|SUBJECT ||Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Out of Print Books
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Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Out of Print Books
From: Ruben Safir
Organization: Brooklyn Linux Solutions
X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:00:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Cancelled Comics Cavalcade
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:50:01 -0600
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:59:31 -0500, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Who Owns That Downloaded File Anyway?
> US CONSTITUTION:
> Amendment IV
> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
> effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
> violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
> by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
> searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Your friend operates a download server; someone turns him in, or maybe
MPAA or a government agency (usually Secret Service) obtains evidence
one or more files on the server is being pirated; your friend is busted,
his computer confiscated and the data on it (which may include info
traceable to everyone who has logged on and downloaded files) becomes
evidence to use in getting additional search and arrest warrants. You
downloaded one of those copyrighted files, the data on the server tells
when, which files, and your IP address. Working from that, the feds
the cooperation of your ISP and perhaps some help from experts employed
by the MPAA) trace it directly to your computer. Now they have enough
obtain search and areest warrants for you too; your computer system --
just the hard drive, but everything computer-related in the house,
including computers owned by family or roommates -- gets confiscated and
examined for evidence of copyright violation. They also find porn on
roommate's computer, which is now carefully examined for any evidence of
illegality such as child porn. Everything that is legally actionable
into criminal charges; even the legal but embarrasing stuff is described
in a press release (or press conference). None of your friends will now
speak to you. Your family is shocked and ashamed. You can't make bail,
so you stay in custody until the court case is resolved (you can speed
things up by just confessing, and you might even get a lesser penalty).
You wind up with a cellmate named Bubba who think you've got a purty
... and Bubba has a lot of friends who want their chance at you too.
Enjoy your stay in the Graybar Hotel.
> Amendment V
> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
> crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except
> cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in
> actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person
> subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
> nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against
> himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due
> process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,
> without just compensation.
Nothing in this protects you against the scenario described above. The
laws under which law enforcement agencies operate in such cases are very
specific and court-tested.
> Article 1:
> The Congress shall have power to ... promote the progress of science
> useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors
> exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
Yep. Violate those exclusive rights, and you're a lawbreaker. See
> We are the Stakeholders
> It's more than a slogan. It's a fact, and one which the public demands
> Congress to recognize.
Really? I'm part of the public, and this is the first time I've read or
heard this "more than a slogan". I'm much more concerned with the
of people illegally entering the U.S.; they have their slogans too, but
that doesn't necessarily mean I give those slogans any credence.
> There it is. The rights of every individual
> citizen, clearly stated in the US Constitution in English as plain to
> understand today as it was when it was written over 200 years ago.
Which, of course, is why lawyers work for minimum wage. /sarcasm off/
The entire legal profession is built around disagreements over the
minor points of law. The legal system is based on the Constitution as a
whole, along with laws and legal precedents which directly bear on the
issue being discussed. If you really think you have found a
Constitutional loophole that allows copyright violation, you're sadly
> Individuals are guaranteed to right to be secure in their persons,
> houses, papers and effects.
Except when the appropriate warrants are issued by a court, following
presentation of probable cause to that court.
> This is absolute and the foundation of
No it isn't; if a prosecutor convinces a judge of probable cause, a
and/or arrest warrant may be issued. Defy the warrant, you've just
committed a criminal offense that is in addition to whatever the cops
looking for in that search warrant.
> Who owns copyrighted works? It is the public.
Wrong-o. Copyrights are issued to individuals and corporate entities
(which are recognized as "legal persons" for such purposes), not the
public. You don't own the rights to the movie "Bambi", the Walt Disney
does. You don't own the rights to Superman, DC Comics (which itself is
part of Time Warner) does.
> Tomorrow Congress can end
> all copyright protections, and then there is none. But Congress can
> never pass a law which ends our ownership of our papers, books and
> property. We demand the same protection to share information on our
> drives, on CD's, Vinyl, Tape and paper that is afforded used books.
"Ownership" of a copyrighted work is actually the issuance of a limited
license. You own outright the physical medium on which it is stored,
you only have a license to the information itself ... unless you hold
copyright to that information.
Remainder of your drivel ignored because I find you rather boring.
An equal opportunity annoyer