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DATE 2007-12-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2007-12-09
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Marco
nylug-talk] Marco
Ruben Safir Secretary NYLXS ruben at mrbrklyn.com
Sat Jul 26 02:55:01 EDT 2003

* Previous message: [nylug-talk] Marco
* Next message: [nylug-talk] Marco
* Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

That being said, on a slightly different subject, I will say for myself
that I will say that in regard to the nature of this thread, that I have
nothing to hold my head low about, nor do I need to make any excuses for any
of my activities, or the the aproach I've taken towards anyone or any
organizations.

It's very easy to make snap judgements based on disguntled individuals
and frail egos, but the reality of accomplishment and activities of
nearly all the programs I've been involved in have been effective, and
have vastly benifited the community at large, at great personal loss to
myself.

In fact, I've personally raised nearly $45,000 for Free Software in New York,
introduced nearly a dozen substantial educational and business programs,
broke new ground in political activitism for Free Software, wrote several
watershead papers on social and political issues involving Free Software,
educated nearly 500 people in GNU/Linux and Programming, and enabled nearly
every disgrunted person complaining on the list.

Furthermore, when I disagreed with the handling of issues and people in other
groups, I strictly respected the rights of those groups and individuals and
carefully crafted my efforts to compliment and not interfere in any way with
the activities of those groups.

I've need threaded on anyones established names, domains, or mailing lists.
I never imitated their ideas, or activities, commedered any of their copyrighted
works, or took unearned credit. I never imposed myself through abuse or force
onto anyone elses organization, and not a single individual of all these
naysayers have been harmed by any of my activities, or efforts.

The same can not be said in the reverse.

Furthermore, I've never once memntions anyones personal vernabilities against
them, and I've never once said anything about any individuals drug abuse,
suicidal wives or families, current state of prescription drug ussage for
depression, and anti-psycotic medications, extra-maritial affairs, family
upbringing, or any other personal information which I had come to know about
individuals.

And again, although I haven't had **any of these things*** in my life, such
things have been level at me.

Finally, despite protests to the contrary, I've kept my promises to individuals
and groups of people, and have acted honorable with regard to gossip, and
politics. In fact, I've found people work, got their names published in
journals and the press, donated sigificant time in working on their skills,
and being an arm chair psychiatrist. I've house members of this gripeing
committee when they were homeless, fed them when they were unemployeed and
without food, and expanded the horizons of nearly everyone in the Free Software
Movement in New York City.

I've been asked to give out no less than 13 employement recommendations in the
last 3 months alone, found new clients and income sources for people, and I've
responded to both insults and less than stellar personal performances by
individuals with unreasonable patients, and trust, to often be burned by those
same individuals in the most personal and vicuous manner.

In fact, I've gotten numerous phone calls and emails from individuals who have
been friends and aquaintences for years asking me why I having given up on this
group of people or that individual, and I've never given in to the impulse
to cut people out until they've done substantial personal harm to either me,
or one of the organizations which I've founded.

The events which lead up to Marco's resignation as President of NYLXS were
unfortunate, but when faced with the choice of tearing the Democracy of NYLXS
up or relenting on the program which NYLXS was founded on, the choice, even
in allowing NYLXS turn into a completely useless instrument of real social
change, I chose to let NYLXS to be turned over in it's core missions rather than
to allow it to be used as an autocratic tool of a single individuals whim,
even when that whim was mine, as the founder.

It was Marco's decision to resign. We wasn't asked to resign. Nor did
he have to resign. Just like Marco didn't have to start this thread. He
feels he has an axe to grind, and he chose to do so. It's up to Marco to
create a productive environment and life for himself. It's not up to me to
agree with him, or to follow him. He has to make his own choices.

In any event, It's easy to forget that I'm a father of 6 children, and I
have a wife, and a life outside of this circle of individuals. My attachment
to any individual within NYLUG, NYLXS, or NY Fair Use (the real NY Fair Use)
is limited by my genuine responsibilities to my family.

I give to people my full measure, and despite implectations to the contrary,
I'm niether particularly isolated, bored, or feeling particuraly alienated.

I wish Marco all the luck in the world with his new group, and I hope he finds
it to be a more productive atmosphere for himself than the path NYLXS was
established on. In the meantime, NYLXS is being represented more than
adequately by a rock solid Board which I have great faith and hope for.
Particularly, Michael Richardson has earned my admiration for his even
disposition, and the fine direction he has moved the group to. I have no
doubt, that despite external efforts to undermine efforts of NYLXS, the Free
Software Institute, the Free Software Chamber of Commerce, NY Fair Use/The New
York Association of Copyright Stakeholders, and the NY Free Software Education
Committee, that NYLXS and it's associated organizations have grown to large
and is too well organized for any external pressure to cause it serious harm.

One final point about Democracy and exclussion. Any Democratically run
organization which functions does so through a rules of conduct which define
citizenship, and also allows for disipline of indiviudals who
break the social contract for the soceity to function in. This is the
GENERAL political prinicple. How this might relate to specific actions
by NYLXS, that would be, IMO, inappropriate for the NYLUG mailing list.



Ruben

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 09:16:42PM -0700, Peter C. Norton wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Speaking as the list adming, please don't discuss this on nylug-talk.
>
> If you do want to talk about it, you now know the email addresses of
> everyone you've mentioned from the meeting. I urge you to talk to
> each of them, and come to your own conclusions. But don't discuss it
> here.
>
> In addition, if you want to ask me anything, i.e. why I don't think
> its appropriate for nylug-talk, please feel free to ask me in personal
> email.
>
> -Peter
>
> --
> The 5 year plan:
> In five years we'll make up another plan.
> Or just re-use this one.
>
> _______________________________________________
> The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk at nylug.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://herzl.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk

--
__________________________
Brooklyn Linux Solutions
__________________________
DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS http://fairuse.nylxs.com

http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting
http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn....

1-718-382-0585


--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

  1. 2007-12-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Try to see if this works
  2. 2007-12-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: New Website updates and Next Meeting
  3. 2007-12-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Website updates and Next Meeting
  4. 2007-12-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'm sick of Procmail
  5. 2007-12-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Paper Work
  6. 2007-12-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: Apache2 (SUSE-SA:2007:061)]
  7. 2007-12-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: Linux kernel (SUSE-SA:2007:064)]
  8. 2007-12-05 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'm sick of Procmail
  9. 2007-12-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'm sick of Procmail
  10. 2007-12-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'm sick of Procmail
  11. 2007-12-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Chanukah Party/ NYLXS Social Event/Installfest
  12. 2007-12-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ron-at-vnetworx.net: [nylug-talk] NYLUG & The NY Technical Community Holiday Party December 13, 6:30-8:30PM]
  13. 2007-12-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Chanukah Party/ NYLXS Social Event/Installfest
  14. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] archive test
  15. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] archive test
  16. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New Archive - Completed
  17. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-nylug.org: [nylug-talk] WEDNESDAY Dec. 12th: NYLUG presents Alec Istomin from SWSoft on OpenVirtuozzo, Virtuozzo, Parallels and more]
  18. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google Linux Desktop
  19. 2007-12-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Website Updates
  20. 2007-12-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Favorite way to ban an IP from your webserver?
  21. 2007-12-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Website Updates
  22. 2007-12-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Marco
  23. 2007-12-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest today
  24. 2007-12-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] TIme to get a Nokia N810
  25. 2007-12-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] InstallFest - Thanx
  26. 2007-12-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worthy GNU News
  27. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Favorite way to ban an IP from your webserver?
  28. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Favorite way to ban an IP from your webserver?
  29. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] CompUSA is gone
  30. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fair Use stikes out again
  31. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Netflix is TOOO Big
  32. 2007-12-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Music is a crime
  33. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Paper Work
  34. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [noreply-at-lists.linuxjournal.com: Linux Journal Weekly Newsletter - Dec. 12, 2007]
  35. 2007-12-12 archive <archive-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Favorite way to ban an IP from your webserver?]
  36. 2007-12-12 archive <archive-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Favorite way to ban an IP from your webserver?]
  37. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  38. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Audacity on 10.2
  39. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Audacity on 10.2
  40. 2007-12-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [bigdaddyj-at-gmail.com: Re: [MLUG] Re: bash pattern matching]
  41. 2007-12-13 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  42. 2007-12-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  43. 2007-12-13 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  44. 2007-12-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  45. 2007-12-13 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JAM-at-JRLLC.com: ]
  46. 2007-12-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [m06malho-at-council.nyc.gov: Tech in Govt Oversight Hearing Tomorrow - NYCHA Call Center Expansion]
  47. 2007-12-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [fmiller-at-lightlink.com: [opensuse] FREE SOFTWARE GROUP FILES COPYRIGHT SUIT AGAINST VERIZON]
  48. 2007-12-14 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Brooklyn community center.
  49. 2007-12-14 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More Brooklyn community center.
  50. 2007-12-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More Brooklyn community center.
  51. 2007-12-14 From: "Michael L. Richardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] More Brooklyn community center.
  52. 2007-12-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Gnome and Microsoft
  53. 2007-12-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Gnome and Microsoft
  54. 2007-12-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Stupid Add Campaign by a local web site
  55. 2007-12-16 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Stupid Add Campaign by a local web site
  56. 2007-12-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Stupid Add Campaign by a local web site
  57. 2007-12-16 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Can anyone help on Monday?
  58. 2007-12-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Can anyone help on Monday?
  59. 2007-12-16 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Can anyone help on Monday?
  60. 2007-12-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Can anyone help on Monday?
  61. 2007-12-16 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Can anyone help on Monday?
  62. 2007-12-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Business Meeting
  63. 2007-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Healthcare and IT
  64. 2007-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [marco-at-digifreedom.net: Wanted: Free Software resources for all families and schools]
  65. 2007-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [pshapiro-at-his.com: [Dclug] impressions of Eee PC from public library viewpoint]
  66. 2007-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [jarod-at-wilsonet.com: Re: New York Stock Exchange moves to Linux]
  67. 2007-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Announcement: Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.10 (SUSE-SA:2007:066)]
  68. 2007-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [meissner-at-suse.de: [security-announce] SUSE Security Summary Report SUSE-SR:2007:025]
  69. 2007-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Acts of Violence in the Universe - News You Might Have Missed
  70. 2007-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [nylug-talk] HP 5Si]
  71. 2007-12-18 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NY and ODF or OOXML
  72. 2007-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NY and ODF or OOXML
  73. 2007-12-19 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NY and ODF or OOXML
  74. 2007-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Tonight 6:30PM
  75. 2007-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Corperate Spying OK for Copyright
  76. 2007-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ms-EU Anti-Trust results
  77. 2007-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] check this out
  78. 2007-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [gaf-at-blu.org: Re: SCO has been delisted by NASDAQ]
  79. 2007-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] OLPC
  80. 2007-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Freedom-IT
  81. 2007-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Mike's Children Workshop
  82. 2007-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [newsletter-at-mysql.com: MySQL Newsletter: December 2007]

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