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DATE 2010-02-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-02-13
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations

On Thursday 11 February 2010 19:24:44 Ruben Safir wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 07:01:11PM -0500, Ajai Khattri wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > Anyone have any constructive insight on this conversation I had with a
> > > friend?
> >
> > I dont see what the problem is. If you're linking to code that is outside
> > the current file you must tell the compiler that it is defined
> > EXTERNally.
> >
> > Often when your code is spread across several files, you might want to
> > refer to symbols defined in other files or other libraries, so you must
> > declare them ahead of your code.
>
> Its the idea that if you define the var (that is, not use the extern
> keyword), that it can create a problem that is bothering me and getting
> under my skin.

My understanding is the 'extern' keyword for a variable in a header means that
a variable is defined _elsewhere_, but that the code section that loads the
header should also have access to the variable. The variable does have to be
declared elsewhere (in only one place) _without_ the 'extern' keyword for this
to work.

This is confusing, so think of it as having a similar context to an additional
"hard link" on a filesystem which has the same name but in a different
directory. A concrete example: say you've got a Linux box in which there is
only a root / filesystem, and you have a user account on the system in /home
under the username 'rsafir'. If you then make a hard link in your home
directory named 'rsafir' which references an mbox file in /var/mail/rsafir,
then both the /home/rsafir/rsafir and /var/mail/rsafir hard links point to the
same inode, and thus the /same file/, with the same storage location on disk.

If you instead make a new file in your home directory with the same name of
'rsafir', a new inode is created and the hard link that is made to this inode
has the same name, but /does not/ point to the one in /var/mail/rsafir, and
does not share the same storage location on disk.

So likewise, without the 'extern' keyword, what would happen is that you'd
have /another/ variable with the same name, with a different unique storage
location, leading to confusion. [Same variable name, but different scope!]

The linker has to figure out where the 'extern' "links" go. In other words,
when you use the 'extern' keyword you're telling the compiler that the
variable does exist somewhere else, and it "takes it on faith" with the
expectation that the linker will be able to figure out where that variable is
so that it can complete the "link" later.



Although I *think* I understand the theory, the actual practice of using this
feature still confuses me a bit.

> There is also the lack of clarity with declaration, and defining that is
> bothing me. It gets down to compiler theory and behavior, which I'm
> trying to slowly bring in with accuracy to the working write up. I know
> more than most, but not nearly enough. Hopefully, doing this will get
> me to clarify a lot of the compiler issues. Most of all, I want to
> right correct material.

I've always wanted some clarification on this issue, too. i.e. keep up the
good work. :-)

-- Chris

--

Chris Knadle
Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us

  1. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Michael George
  2. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] sddsfs
  3. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The end of the future
  4. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The end of the future
  5. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - Introduction
  6. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  7. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - Introduction
  8. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  9. 2010-02-02 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  10. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  11. 2010-02-02 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  12. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  13. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  14. 2010-02-02 From: "Stan Davenport" <stan-at-etrtechcenter.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  15. 2010-02-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  16. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite
  17. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  18. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  19. 2010-02-05 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  20. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  21. 2010-02-05 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  22. 2010-02-06 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  23. 2010-02-06 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  24. 2010-02-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worlds most secure Operating System
  25. 2010-02-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] They are OUT OF PRINT stupid..
  26. 2010-02-07 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  27. 2010-02-07 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  28. 2010-02-07 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  29. 2010-02-07 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  30. 2010-02-07 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  31. 2010-02-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Criminals on PBS
  32. 2010-02-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  33. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars in Europe
  34. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars in Europe Part II
  35. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Security Alert
  36. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Code for Android
  37. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  38. 2010-02-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  39. 2010-02-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Night This Week
  40. 2010-02-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  41. 2010-02-12 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  42. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Night This Week
  43. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] LAMP Developer, NYC | 90-100k
  44. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  45. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  46. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  47. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  48. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  49. 2010-02-12 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  50. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  51. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  52. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  53. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  54. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  55. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  56. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  57. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  58. 2010-02-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  59. 2010-02-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  60. 2010-02-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  61. 2010-02-15 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A good friend of mine is looking for a job
  62. 2010-02-15 Ron <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk, C++, Python) TOMORROW February 16 6:00PM-8:00PM
  63. 2010-02-15 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk,
  64. 2010-02-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  65. 2010-02-16 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-announce] NYLUG Presents: 2/17 -at- 6:30PM Luke Kanies
  66. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Passing Tradition in the digital age
  67. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Senior Linux Engineer - Job Opportunity for NYLXS
  68. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Catching up to me
  69. 2010-02-16 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk, C++, Python) TODAY February 16 6:00PM-8:00PM
  70. 2010-02-16 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200k or to $700/day
  71. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [Linux.com.users] Ultimate Linux Guru Update
  72. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200k
  73. 2010-02-16 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200kor to $700/day
  74. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to
  75. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Amy
  76. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Amy
  77. 2010-02-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Sunday at 6:00PM till --- when ever
  78. 2010-02-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Streaming LIVE: Luke Kanies on The Future of Puppet
  79. 2010-02-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: TM Insider: HAIR: The Best Musical of 2009 for just $55
  80. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Hacking and Ice Cast - this Sunday Evening
  81. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  82. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Programming and Modern Approach question
  83. 2010-02-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table Saturday 2/20 at 10 PM
  84. 2010-02-19 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Hacking and Ice Cast - this Sunday Evening
  85. 2010-02-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS/Open SOurce Dejavu all over again
  86. 2010-02-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round TableSaturday in ONE HOUR (10
  87. 2010-02-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round
  88. 2010-02-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round TableSaturday
  89. 2010-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [knking-at-gsu.edu: Re: C Programming and Modern
  90. 2010-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] IceCast Server
  91. 2010-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DSL Router Virus
  92. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  93. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  94. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  95. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Only significant Issue in the Healthcare bill
  96. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Only significant Issue in the Healthcare
  97. 2010-02-24 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  98. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  99. 2010-02-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  100. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  101. 2010-02-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  102. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  103. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  104. 2010-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [FSF] Day Against DRM: May 4
  105. 2010-02-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  106. 2010-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics - Aggregate Data Types

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