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DATE 2010-02-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2010-02-24
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Only significant Issue in the Healthcare

This is particularly wrong

---------
About 95 percent of health insurance markets in the nation are
“highly concentrated,” meaning that customers have only one or a
few insurers to pick from. Proponents of repealing the antitrust
exemption argue that such concentration has created an anticompetitive
situation permitting huge premium increases.

But the Congressional Budget Office, a nonpartisan agency, reported in
October that repealing the antitrust exemption for health insurers would
not make a huge difference in premiums, in part because state laws
generally already barred the activities prohibited by the federal bill.
In terms of premiums, the report said, “the magnitude of the effects
is likely to be quite small.”

---

The congressional budget office is full of it. The drive force behind
the healthcare inflation, beside the flat out lack of economic forces,
is the price fixing between Insurance Companies (and they don't do
insurance..they are really PBM - plan benefit managers), and the drug
companies and such. They price fix and get kick backs from the drug
companies. If they had to constain costs because of economic pressure
on premiums instead of using kickbacks to drive their profits, then the
whole dynamics of medical economics would change.

Ruben


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 02:00:08AM -0500, Ruben Safir wrote:
> February 23, 2010, 3:44 PM
> White House Urges Repeal of Insurers’ Antitrust Exemption
> By PETER BAKER
> 4:56 p.m. | Updated
>
> President Obama called on Tuesday for repealing the health insurance
> industry’s exemption from federal antitrust laws, escalating his
> attack on insurers as he tries to revive his stalled effort to overhaul
> the nation’s health care system.
>
>
> The White House sent Congress a statement throwing its weight behind a
> House bill to overturn parts of the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945, which
> granted insurance companies broad protection from federal monopoly
> oversight and left regulation of the industry largely to state
> governments.
>
> The president’s move came a day after he proposed a new effort to
> crack down on insurers that are raising premium rates dramatically, part
> of a comprehensive health care plan that he posted on the White House
> Web site before a bipartisan summit meeting on Thursday. But the
> antitrust repeal was not included in Mr. Obama’s overall plan on
> Monday; it was instead left to the separate House legislation.
>
> “Removing this exemption will allow appropriate enforcement and
> examination of potential policies that might prove uncompetitive, might
> stifle competition,” said Robert Gibbs, the White House press
> secretary. “And we think this better promotes affordability and
> innovation through greater choice and less market concentration.”
>
> The proposed repeal has strong support among House Democrats, who
> included a version of it in the broader health care bill passed by the
> House last year. But the fate of the repeal remains uncertain in the
> Senate, where Democrats did not incorporate it into their health care
> legislation. Critics noted that mergers and some business practices were
> already subject to federal oversight and said that repealing
> McCarran-Ferguson provisions would do nothing to lower health care
> costs.
>
> “The rhetoric surrounding repeal of McCarran-Ferguson does not match
> the reality of the situation,” said Karen Ignagni, president of
> America’s Health Insurance Plans, an industry group. “Health
> insurance is one of the most regulated industries in America at both the
> federal and the state levels.”
>
> Mr. Obama signaled last October that he was interested in the issue when
> he said in a weekend radio and Internet address that Congress was right
> to study a possible repeal. At the time, he complained that insurers
> were gouging customers and executives were “earning these profits
> and bonuses while enjoying a privileged exemption from our antitrust
> laws.”
>
> His statement on Tuesday represented the first time he had taken a
> formal position. Mr. Gibbs said the idea was not put into the overall
> health care plan posted on Monday because strategists believed there
> could be a bipartisan majority for repealing the exemption, separate
> from the main legislation.
>
> The standalone repeal bill was devised as the first salvo in a
> dual-track strategy by Representative Nancy Pelosi, the California
> Democrat and House speaker, to advance elements of a health care
> overhaul one by one in case the comprehensive effort ultimately does not
> go forward.
>
> Ms. Pelosi and Representative Louise M. Slaughter, Democrat of New York,
> pressed Mr. Obama for support during a private meeting last month,
> according to Congressional aides. “This industry has enjoyed a big
> giveaway for far too long,” Ms. Slaughter said in a statement after
> the president’s announcement Tuesday, “and it’s about time
> that it plays by the same rules as everyone else.”
>
> The Democratic leadership allowed the latest version of the bill to be
> introduced on Monday by Representatives Tom Perriello of Virginia and
> Betsy Markey of Colorado, two freshman Democrats who voted on opposite
> sides on the larger health care legislation last year. Under the bill,
> health insurers would no longer be protected from liability for
> price-fixing, bid-rigging or dividing up market territories, according
> to the sponsors.
>
> But after industry lobbying, the new version would not affect medical
> malpractice insurers.
>
> About 95 percent of health insurance markets in the nation are
> “highly concentrated,” meaning that customers have only one or a
> few insurers to pick from. Proponents of repealing the antitrust
> exemption argue that such concentration has created an anticompetitive
> situation permitting huge premium increases.
>
> But the Congressional Budget Office, a nonpartisan agency, reported in
> October that repealing the antitrust exemption for health insurers would
> not make a huge difference in premiums, in part because state laws
> generally already barred the activities prohibited by the federal bill.
> In terms of premiums, the report said, “the magnitude of the effects
> is likely to be quite small.”
>
> Moreover, a Congressional Research Service report last month said that
> repealing the exemption could open the door to a flood of lawsuits
> challenging various insurer practices and could harm smaller insurers
> that share data because they do not have large pools of information of
> their own. If the result is that small insurers can no longer share
> information, the report said, “further consolidation in the
> insurance industry” would be “a likely, albeit ironic,
> possibility.”

  1. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Michael George
  2. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] sddsfs
  3. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The end of the future
  4. 2010-02-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The end of the future
  5. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - Introduction
  6. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  7. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - Introduction
  8. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  9. 2010-02-02 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  10. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  11. 2010-02-02 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  12. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  13. 2010-02-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  14. 2010-02-02 From: "Stan Davenport" <stan-at-etrtechcenter.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] Operations Manager, NYC | 120k+
  15. 2010-02-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  16. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Nite
  17. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  18. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop I datatypes cont..
  19. 2010-02-05 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  20. 2010-02-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  21. 2010-02-05 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The new mail server
  22. 2010-02-06 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  23. 2010-02-06 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  24. 2010-02-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Worlds most secure Operating System
  25. 2010-02-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] They are OUT OF PRINT stupid..
  26. 2010-02-07 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  27. 2010-02-07 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  28. 2010-02-07 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  29. 2010-02-07 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  30. 2010-02-07 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  31. 2010-02-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Criminals on PBS
  32. 2010-02-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  33. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars in Europe
  34. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars in Europe Part II
  35. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Security Alert
  36. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Code for Android
  37. 2010-02-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  38. 2010-02-10 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  39. 2010-02-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Night This Week
  40. 2010-02-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  41. 2010-02-12 Paul Charles Leddy <pcleddy-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruben
  42. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Night This Week
  43. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] LAMP Developer, NYC | 90-100k
  44. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  45. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  46. 2010-02-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  47. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  48. 2010-02-12 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hi Ruben
  49. 2010-02-12 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  50. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  51. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  52. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  53. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  54. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  55. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  56. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  57. 2010-02-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop - side discussing on C++ variable declarations
  58. 2010-02-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  59. 2010-02-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Downtown Brooklyn Tech Center
  60. 2010-02-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  61. 2010-02-15 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A good friend of mine is looking for a job
  62. 2010-02-15 Ron <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk, C++, Python) TOMORROW February 16 6:00PM-8:00PM
  63. 2010-02-15 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk,
  64. 2010-02-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  65. 2010-02-16 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-announce] NYLUG Presents: 2/17 -at- 6:30PM Luke Kanies
  66. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Passing Tradition in the digital age
  67. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Senior Linux Engineer - Job Opportunity for NYLXS
  68. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Catching up to me
  69. 2010-02-16 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLUG Workshop / Hacking Society, (Smalltalk, C++, Python) TODAY February 16 6:00PM-8:00PM
  70. 2010-02-16 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200k or to $700/day
  71. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [Linux.com.users] Ultimate Linux Guru Update
  72. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200k
  73. 2010-02-16 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to 200kor to $700/day
  74. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [JOB] 30 C++/Unix Programmers, NYC | to
  75. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Amy
  76. 2010-02-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Amy
  77. 2010-02-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Sunday at 6:00PM till --- when ever
  78. 2010-02-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Streaming LIVE: Luke Kanies on The Future of Puppet
  79. 2010-02-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: TM Insider: HAIR: The Best Musical of 2009 for just $55
  80. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Hacking and Ice Cast - this Sunday Evening
  81. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics
  82. 2010-02-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Programming and Modern Approach question
  83. 2010-02-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round Table Saturday 2/20 at 10 PM
  84. 2010-02-19 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Technight - Hacking and Ice Cast - this Sunday Evening
  85. 2010-02-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS/Open SOurce Dejavu all over again
  86. 2010-02-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round TableSaturday in ONE HOUR (10
  87. 2010-02-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round
  88. 2010-02-20 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] (live streaming) Free Software Round TableSaturday
  89. 2010-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [knking-at-gsu.edu: Re: C Programming and Modern
  90. 2010-02-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] IceCast Server
  91. 2010-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DSL Router Virus
  92. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  93. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  94. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  95. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Only significant Issue in the Healthcare bill
  96. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The Only significant Issue in the Healthcare
  97. 2010-02-24 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  98. 2010-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  99. 2010-02-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  100. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  101. 2010-02-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  102. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  103. 2010-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  104. 2010-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [FSF] Day Against DRM: May 4
  105. 2010-02-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] this should not get through
  106. 2010-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C++ Workshop _ Syntax Basics - Aggregate Data Types

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