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| DATE | 2016-10-09 |
| FROM | ruben safir
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| SUBJECT | Subject: [Learn] Fwd: phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs
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From learn-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Oct 9 00:54:59 2016
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Subject: [Learn] Fwd: phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs
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From: Popping mad
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
Subject: phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 09:55:51 +0000 (UTC)
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Xref: panix sci.bio.paleontology:67039
I'm pouring over this paper on phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs. I'm
not understanding what is being measure in the premaxilla bone, which is
a measured characteristic 13. Does anyone have an example of a diagram
of what is being measured?
(Premaxilla orientationa and shape of anterior margin)
I don't know what ventral and anterior margins are and what angle is
being measured.
Article: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep20252
13) Premaxilla, orientation and shape of anterior margin: smoothly curved
and projection posterodorsally, angle between ventral margin of premaxilla
and anterior margin is less than 90 degrees (0); smoothly curved and
projecting vertically or slightly anterodorsally, angle between
ventral margin of premaxilla and anterior margin is equal to or greater
than 90 degrees (1); projecting vertically or slightly anterodorsally,
with a discrete inflection point between a more vertical ventral portion
and a more horizontal dorsal portion (2). ORDERED (Brusatte et al.
2010:13).
This character is slightly modified following Brusatte et al. (2014:485).
We have transformed the original character of Brusatte et al. (2010:13)
into an ordered multistate by adding a new intermediate state referring
to an approximately vertical (or slightly anterodorsally inclined)
anterior margin of the ventral portion of the premaxilla. State 2 now
refers to a special condition of this state, in which the anterior margin
is vertical (or anterodorsally inclined) and there is also a discrete
inflection point between the more vertical ventral portion of the
anterior margin and the more horizontal dorsal portion of the margin.
Taxa with this condition, therefore, do not possess a smoothly curved
anterior margin of the premaxilla. Tyrannosauroids are characterized by
either state 1 or state 2, with state 2 referring to a subset of basal
tyrannosauroids (Dilong, Guanlong, Kileskus, Proceratosaurus,
Sinotyrannus).
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 10:22:04 -0500
Subject: Re: phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs
Newsgroups: sci.bio.paleontology
References:
From: John Harshman
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 08:22:02 -0700
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Xref: panix sci.bio.paleontology:67040
On 10/8/16 2:55 AM, Popping mad wrote:
> I'm pouring over this paper on phylogeny tyrannosauroid dinosaurs. I'm
> not understanding what is being measure in the premaxilla bone, which is
> a measured characteristic 13. Does anyone have an example of a diagram
> of what is being measured?
I think they're talking about a lateral (side) view of the angle between
the bottom of the premaxilla (where the teeth are) and the front.
I tried comparing a few images of Tyrannosaurus and Dilong skulls, and
there seems to be quite a lot of variation. Some of the T. rex skulls do
seem to show an inflection point, but others seem pretty smoothly
curved. A Nature paper is probably the wrong one to look to for good
character descriptions. I'd look at the references to see if anything is
illustrated there.
> (Premaxilla orientationa and shape of anterior margin)
>
> I don't know what ventral and anterior margins are and what angle is
> being measured.
>
>
> Article: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep20252
>
> 13) Premaxilla, orientation and shape of anterior margin: smoothly curved
> and projection posterodorsally, angle between ventral margin of premaxilla
> and anterior margin is less than 90 degrees (0); smoothly curved and
> projecting vertically or slightly anterodorsally, angle between
> ventral margin of premaxilla and anterior margin is equal to or greater
> than 90 degrees (1); projecting vertically or slightly anterodorsally,
> with a discrete inflection point between a more vertical ventral portion
> and a more horizontal dorsal portion (2). ORDERED (Brusatte et al.
> 2010:13).
>
> This character is slightly modified following Brusatte et al. (2014:485).
> We have transformed the original character of Brusatte et al. (2010:13)
> into an ordered multistate by adding a new intermediate state referring
> to an approximately vertical (or slightly anterodorsally inclined)
> anterior margin of the ventral portion of the premaxilla. State 2 now
> refers to a special condition of this state, in which the anterior margin
> is vertical (or anterodorsally inclined) and there is also a discrete
> inflection point between the more vertical ventral portion of the
> anterior margin and the more horizontal dorsal portion of the margin.
> Taxa with this condition, therefore, do not possess a smoothly curved
> anterior margin of the premaxilla. Tyrannosauroids are characterized by
> either state 1 or state 2, with state 2 referring to a subset of basal
> tyrannosauroids (Dilong, Guanlong, Kileskus, Proceratosaurus,
> Sinotyrannus).
>
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