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DATE 2015-12-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2015-12-25
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [list@xenhideout.nl: Re: [opensuse] Moderation on
Anyone see this? I thought it was like an end of year joke and then
just realized that these idiots actually banned Carlos ER from the opensuse
group. Anyone who has ever needed tech support of read the opensuse list
known Carlos ER as being the backbone of that mailing lists tech support.


UNBELIEVABLE.

How do people behave in such a self destructive fasion?

Ruben


----- Forwarded message from Xen -----

Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 19:13:27 +0100
From: Xen
To: suse
Subject: Re: [opensuse] Moderation on mailing list (was: Scan application question: [SOLVED])
User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.1.3

David C. Rankin schreef op 23-12-2015 3:14:
> On 12/22/2015 07:41 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:
>> Richard Brown had him banned from all lists for some reasons which do
>> not looker kosher to me. However, the ban is only till February
>> (?beginning or end, cannot remember) so Carlos will be back with a
>> vengeance, hopefully :-) .
>>
>> (The whole spectacle unfolded in Project if you care to look at the
>> archives.)
>>
>
> It seems we have some we have some less than constructive currents
> flowing through the community as of late. Sad... Seems a long way from
> "Software und SystemEntwicklung"

Yeah, at least then ban me.

I'm trying to find the places in Project where Carlos has been
offensive, but I can't find any. It's getting a bit tiring.

Except perhaps:

"Hopefully now Richard will see now that is nothing personal with me,
as he usually seems to think."

I must say, just an opinion, and as usual quite worthless, that I
thought this Richard Brown, as he is the project leader apparently,
and I do not know such things, but: I thought mr. Richard to be less
respectful in his wording and messaging than Carlos or any of the
others.

For example, attacking someone because the person uses the "it was
said" style of referring to other people's opinions (referring to an
unknown group that has a certain opinion, without providing evidence
or reference) and then saying " I'm very disappointed to see you use
the technique of citing others without examples in order to make your
opinion sound more widely supported." is not only a tad hostile but
also rather dishonest itself. Other people chimed in (in that thread)
and provided those "much wanted references" which kinda made it clear,
or even proved, that mr. Carlos was not "inventing things". So even
though his statements may be or may have been called "lazy" it was not
a dishonest technique in order to influence the apparent public
opinion in a dishonest or unfair way.

At the same time, mr. Richard's statement can certainly be called
such: he tried to influence the apparent public opinion by dishonestly
calling mr. Carlos's statement "ungrounded" when they were not.

So the one thing mr. Richard Brown accused mr. Carlos E.R. of, he was
doing himself.

Now, perhaps, if someone is using dishonest techniques himself, in a
subtle yet obvious way, as a means of stifling debate or cutting short
some people or some opinions, I can imagine these people would respond
eventually in a "aggressive" way.

First you disrespect people, and then if they object, you ban them for
their "aggression". In this way, disagreement is framed as
impoliteness and then framed in such a way as to be in violation of
some Code of Conduct. It has happened before.

It is also simply a way to cut short any form of resistance.

We have, if I am this time allowed to refer to it, perhaps all heard
of the Kubuntu debacle in which mr. Jonathan Riddell was one of those
"aggressors" who violated the "CoC" when he became angry with attempts
by the Ubuntu Council to thwart real dicussion and honest appraisal of
his complaints. Riddell may have been ghastly, was often a bit
arrogant and overly short and perhaps abrasive in his responses, which
made UCC members feel rather afraid of working with him, but at the
same time that doesn't mean those UCC members and Canonical itself
hadn't been doing the exact thing he said they had been doing. And
people sometimes become impatient and annoyed. And a company's or a
group's mode of operation may very well be structurally disrespectful
of other people's rights. Yet such disrespect is always framed as
being civilized, appropriate and "well intended".

Meanwhile these civilized, appropriate and well-intending individuals
often trample other people's rights and concerns. But they get away
with it, because they are in charge. They are the ones wielding the
ban stick.

You never see it the other way around: the 'oppressors' resorting to
'aggression' and violating the 'code of conduct' they themselves have
devised to keep people in check.

Perhaps I am, as they say, being hyperbolic again. Perhaps my mode of
operandus is overly assaultive again, at this point?.

But I just want to say that not all is as it appears. Every
hierarchical organisation uses a stick to beat people that fall out of
line. Often times, such falling out of line is framed in terms of a
flaw in character: they fall out of line because they have an
"authority issue" and if you want a funny yet horrid example of this
just read the first chapter of "Living with the passsive-aggressive
man" by Scott Wetzler to see how resistance is framed as a personal
failing.

Succumbing or submitting to authority is seen as the proper way to
live life. There are more such attributions that are well-known, such
as "commitment issues" or "fear of commitment" when a man (always a
man) doesn't want to stick to a fixed monogamous relationship. His
natural tendency to be free is seen as personal failing. But in this
case.

Mr. Carlos was probably being what we may call "disobedient" and he
was punished for it.

It was said that they hope that this punishment will "improve" his
behaviour. If anything, it will naturally make him more resentful and
even more angry.

I think this is dishonest. He was being a trouble and he was
disciplined for it. It has nothing to do with morals, or politeness,
or behaviour, and everything to do with politics.

So if this is the truth, at least just say so. Say "We disciplined him
because he was a troublesome element" or "He was disciplined for
falling out of line."

Insincerity is the final hallmark of a repressive regime.


And I'd be happy to take his place as a banned person, as my
contributions are practically worthless anyway, as I'm sure you'd all
agree.


Regards, and signing out , ..

"Xen".
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe-at-opensuse.org
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner-at-opensuse.org

----- End forwarded message -----

--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

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  97. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Surveillance state in NYC
  98. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Big Bros
  99. 2015-12-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux . com is advising to change search engine
  100. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [randolf-at-modperl.pl: FYI: ModPerl and APR with
  101. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux . com is advising to change search engine
  102. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: [Frum Jewish Jobs] Telecommunications
  103. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: LIU University Update
  104. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Dangers of living in NYC
  105. 2015-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] This is why Bloomberg HAD to go
  106. 2015-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux . com is advising to change search engine
  107. 2015-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux . com is advising to change search engine
  108. 2015-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] anybody see this libreoffice APIs?
  109. 2015-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Journal Update
  110. 2015-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Wayland support?
  111. 2015-12-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Report on dns for nylxs.com and mrbrklyn.com
  112. 2015-12-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Report on dns for nylxs.com and mrbrklyn.com
  113. 2015-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Christmas Movie
  114. 2015-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  115. 2015-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [list-at-xenhideout.nl: Re: [opensuse] Moderation on
  116. 2015-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [RBrownCCB-at-opensuse.org: Re: [opensuse] Re:
  117. 2015-12-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  118. 2015-12-25 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  119. 2015-12-26 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  120. 2015-12-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  121. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Fwd: Fwd: Re: [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos
  122. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  123. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [opensuse-security-at-opensuse.org:
  124. 2015-12-26 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  125. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  126. 2015-12-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  127. 2015-12-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  128. 2015-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  129. 2015-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  130. 2015-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn
  131. 2015-12-27 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  132. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The community demands for Richard Brown to resign
  133. 2015-12-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] [opensuse] The Post that got Carlos ER Banded !!
  134. 2015-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Grand Jury
  135. 2015-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Federal Grand Jury - cont
  136. 2015-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Never Forgetting a Face
  137. 2015-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Perl6 released
  138. 2015-12-28 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  139. 2015-12-28 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  140. 2015-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  141. 2015-12-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  142. 2015-12-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  143. 2015-12-28 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  144. 2015-12-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  145. 2015-12-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  146. 2015-12-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Take the beautiful ferryboat ride to
  147. 2015-12-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [magross-at-its.brooklyn.cuny.edu: Re: research]
  148. 2015-12-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [IEEEservice-at-ieee.org: What's New for Students:
  149. 2015-12-29 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  150. 2015-12-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_=22The_Danger_of_Partial_No-go_Z?=
  151. 2015-12-29 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Dear Invitor,
  152. 2015-12-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn: Dear Invitor,
  153. 2015-12-29 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  154. 2015-12-29 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  155. 2015-12-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  156. 2015-12-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  157. 2015-12-29 From: <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  158. 2015-12-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  159. 2015-12-30 Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  160. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  161. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] amazon echo
  162. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] =?utf-8?q?=5BVonage=40harmony=2Evonage=2Ecom=3A_Y?=
  163. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Linux and voice recognition software
  164. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  165. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Observation Deck at the WTC
  166. 2015-12-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  167. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Perlbox
  168. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] GRUB Vulnerability
  169. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [cymbros-at-assembly.state.ny.us: NYS Launches New
  170. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  171. 2015-12-30 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  172. 2015-12-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  173. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ian Murdock dead
  174. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  175. 2015-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  176. 2015-12-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  177. 2015-12-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] California sounding increasingly peachy
  178. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ian Murdock suicide
  179. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ian Murdock suicide
  180. 2015-12-31 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ian Murdock suicide: Where did this take place ?
  181. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Star Wars IMAX
  182. 2015-12-31 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Star Wars IMAX
  183. 2015-12-31 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Star Wars IMAX
  184. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Star Wars IMAX
  185. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Chase Grants and Loans for start ups and Non-Profits
  186. 2015-12-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Trapper John is gone

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