MESSAGE
DATE | 2017-11-22 |
FROM | Ruben Safir
|
SUBJECT | Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [artix-general] icu - run both versions
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Wed Nov 22 16:56:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-at-nylxs.com Delivered-To: archive-at-nylxs.com Received: from www.mrbrklyn.com (www.mrbrklyn.com [96.57.23.82]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3073163F5D; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:56:48 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: hangout-at-www.mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: hangout-at-www.mrbrklyn.com Received: by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D3ED8163F5B; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:56:46 -0500 (EST) Resent-From: Ruben Safir Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 16:56:46 -0500 Resent-Message-ID: <20171122215646.GK8880-at-www.mrbrklyn.com> Resent-To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com X-Original-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Delivered-To: ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Received: from us2.mailinglist1.mailhostbox.com (us2.mailinglist1.mailhostbox.com [204.11.59.83]) by mrbrklyn.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 82463160876 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 24302 invoked by uid 300); 22 Nov 2017 18:43:16 -0000 Mailing-List: contact artix-general-help-at-artixlinux.org; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list artix-general-at-artixlinux.org Received: (qmail 24294 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2017 18:43:16 -0000 Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=96.57.23.82; helo=mrbrklyn.com; envelope-from=ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com; receiver=artix-general-at-artixlinux.org References: To: artix-general-at-artixlinux.org From: Ruben Safir X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Message-ID: <41dff7c5-43f2-31de-8941-c3c631e2feb5-at-mrbrklyn.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:43:09 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=E5K9neVl c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=dOhXy1r7xzSwKFzJ68PqjA==:117 a=dOhXy1r7xzSwKFzJ68PqjA==:17 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=fsXLkTk5AAAA:8 a=-Kv9kUPs8P4SECrR0MQA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=zTVZ3laHAWFKilA0fLUg:22 X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=bIBmGL2Z c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jaAqhhJujmLFhClgHnIoTA==:117 a=dOhXy1r7xzSwKFzJ68PqjA==:17 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=-Kv9kUPs8P4SECrR0MQA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [artix-general] icu - run both versions X-BeenThere: hangout-at-nylxs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: artix-general-at-artixlinux.org List-Id: NYLXS Tech Talk and Politics List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sender: "Hangout"
Chris Cromer
On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 12:23:21AM -0300, Chris Cromer wrote: >> I admit that ICU getting pushed too soon was a problem. But the problem was >> not because of a broken package. All those other packages needed to be >> recompiled against the new libs since the ABI is incompatible in the new >> lib. An unfortunate situation yes, but sometimes these things happen on a >> rolling release distro. >> > > > That is incorrect. I was talking to Rick Moen about this last night and > the packages are broken and were always broken and will continue to be > broken. ICU is not a declared dependency in the packages although they > are in the source files.
Packages don't have to have "depends" declcared for every single possible thing in the packages to link against them, it is enough that they are installed by a dependency of a dependency. So if package C depends on package B and package A, and package B depends on package A, it is enough to make package C only depend on package B which forms a chain of dependencies. There is not need to put package A as dependency in package C because B will already pull it in as one of its dependencies. The fact that you don't realize this means that you have very limited knowledge of how packaging actually works. And frankly I don't care what "Rick Moen" says, the truth is that those supposedly broken packages as you call them are linked to ICU when they were compiled and had to be recompiled to link against the new version of ICU. They were not "broken", they needed to be updated for the new ICU version.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello Chris. For major libraries this is commonly not necessary as they are linked as stdc++ ect
It is the smaller libraries that pose this problem and they should be 100% listed with all there dependencies.
Understand, tumbleweed, which is the opensuse rolling release I had for years rarely if ever had this problem. Now maybe that is a manpower issue, and you folks are working your tushas off to get artix up to speed, but I have SEEN library dependencies cause package management systems retain libraries in rolling releases, and with Manjaro, that was an issue with gtk3 where there was no upgrade path without removing needed packages ... which was a PIA.
But I don't feel compelled, and neither should you, to chose between 100% package management and 100% code base. Of course, once one goes off the package management system, its on you, not the artix core developers or the arch people. But OTOH, in this instance, what are you gonna lose? The benefits are greater than the losses.
Show me how having a spare unmonitored icu library from ARCH presents a problem and be specific. It over writes NOTHING. It lives in its own space. _______________________________________________ Hangout mailing list Hangout-at-nylxs.com http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout
|
|