MESSAGE
| DATE | 2004-02-11 |
| FROM | Ruben I Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [hangout] Re: [Orgcom] A view from above...
|
>
> ORGCOM is an organization of free software and hardware tribes and
> organizations and individuals dedicated to the advance of freedom in
> computing and communications.
The only tribes recognized in American law are Indian Nations. So I don't see
any tribes.
Orgcom, as it has been discucced at this point, and as it has been represented
by those trying to organize it, has very specifically been organized and operated
as a gathering of TWO DELEGATES from each PROSPECTIVE member organization.
There are NO INDIVIDUALS involved. In fact, each group, NYLXS included has been
purposefully restricted to TWO DELEGATES which represent each group.
NYLUG has two delegates
NYPC has two delegates
Unilug has 2 delegate
GNUBIES has 2 lugs
LXNY - I asume has 2 delegates
and so on.
Furthmore, delegates those fr have been folded into orgom at this point without
even any review of the legitamacy of the Organizations they CLAIM to represent.
Therefor:
> ORGCOM shall be the Judge of the Elections,
> Returns and Qualifications of its own Members.
Nonsense.
Right now there is no Orgcom other than a preliminary discussion under the understanding
which was stated above, that each Organization can send 2 delegate.
Until a formalized charter is created which defines what an organization IS and what credentials
a delegate has to have to prove that they have been empowered to represent their associated Organization,
then there is no way to either determin the legitimacty of delegates or organizations. Therefore, there can be
no judge or judgement of members.
Now if you want to change EVERYTHING, and say, Orgom is Jay's tree house. Any INDIVIDUAL who comes to Jay's
tree house can have a say about how they play, when that's a WHOLE NOTHER THING. And then your fine.
> And only ORGCOM as a whole
> shall have power to judge membership disputes.
>
Define THIS statement. This is a meaningless sentence, since OBVIOUSLY Orgcom is
being desinged as group of groups, all of which have their own legal responsibilities, budgets,
accountants, lawyers, insurance and activities.
Furthmore, the term AS A WHOLE is meaningless as well. You had something like 22 delegates at the
last meeting, and you can't even decide if Orgcom AS A WHOLE decided to open up the mailing list or not.
> ORGCOM has one large first specific objective: to create and run a series
> of Gatherings in New York City to Advance both Our Joint and Our Particular
> Causes and Projects, so long as Our Particular Causes and Projects Advance
> the Cause of Freedom of Computing and Communications.
This is YOUR OPINION. This has not been decided by the organizations involved in Orgcom. And this is the
danger. Your coming off as if you can speak for Orgcom. Under what authority? Under whose supervision?
>
> ORGCOM's legal counsel will assist in drafting the national and/or state
> legal charter(s) so that the above paragraphs are scrupulously respected by
> the nations and/or states under whose jurisdiction we are externally
> formally legally chartered.
Again, who's legal council. Did you reach into your pocket and buy legal council for the Organization prior to
it's chartering and without consulting the delegates, and the groups the delegates represent?
>
> Is it the position of NYLXS that ORGCOM is not to be the Judge of the
> Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members?
I can't speak officially for NYLXS. Even Michael would be out on a limb to do this
without review and debate by the board of NYLXS, if not the entire membership. However,
as an active voting member of the NYLXS board, I can report truthfully to you that NYLXS
has GRAVE concerns about the oversite of this group, fidiciary responsibilities, asset
management, trademark control, fisical accounting and responsibility, membership organization
qualifications, the delegation of decision making authority and an open system of checks and
balances to assure accountability.
Furthermore, NYLXS is greatly concerned about having sole discression over choosing it's delegates
to Orgcom, and changing them completely at our will. At no time can Orgcom, once there is an Orgcom,
tell NYLXS - Hey this is your delegate, and your stuck with him/her as your representitive. This would be
utter nonsense. Any delegate we send, for any meeting, for any activity, and any votes, is our representitive
SOLELY.
> If that is the
> position of NYLXS, then who does NYLXS suggest should be the Judge of the
> Elections, Returns and Qualifications of ORGCOM Members?
That, my friend, is the first thing that must be discussed at the delegates eariest convience.
Otherwise, what will happen is that the arbitor will be The State Supreme Court of Kings County
at 360 Adams Street when a dispute errupts because someone decides to walk off with a domain name,
or a trademark, or a bank account and when a dispute errupts about election results or lines of authority.
Know what I mean Jay? BTW - I STILL have your pants here Jay. Should I donate them to charity or are you
going to pick them up?
Ruben
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