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DATE 2008-03-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2008-03-16
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
also for what it is worth, I'm looking forward to the day that this
can work on my standard PC. I hope I'm not dead before this can get my
sound card running.

http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html

Introduction to the Hurd

The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. The
Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel to
implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and
other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels
(such as Linux).

Currently, the Hurd runs on IA32 machines. The Hurd should, and probably
will, be ported to other hardware architectures or other microkernels
in the future. Advantages of the Hurd The Hurd is not the most advanced
kernel known to the planet (yet), but it does have a number of enticing
features:

it's free software
Anybody can use, modify, and redistribute it under the terms of the
GNU General Public License (GPL).
it's compatible
The Hurd provides a familiar programming and user environment. For all
intents and purposes, the Hurd is a modern Unix-like kernel. The Hurd
uses the GNU C Library, whose development closely tracks standards
such as ANSI/ISO, BSD, POSIX, Single Unix, SVID, and X/Open.
it's built to survive
Unlike other popular kernel software, the Hurd has an object-oriented
structure that allows it to evolve without compromising its
design. This structure will help the Hurd undergo major redesign
and modifications without having to be entirely rewritten.
it's scalable
The Hurd implementation is aggressively multithreaded so that
it runs efficiently on both single processors and symmetric
multiprocessors. The Hurd interfaces are designed to allow transparent
network clusters (collectives), although this feature has not yet
been implemented.
it's extensible
The Hurd is an attractive platform for learning how to become a kernel
hacker or for implementing new ideas in kernel technology. Every
part of the system is designed to be modified and extended.
it's stable
It is possible to develop and test new Hurd kernel components without
rebooting the machine (not even accidentally). Running your own kernel
components doesn't interfere with other users, and so no special
system privileges are required. The mechanism for kernel extensions is
secure by design: it is impossible to impose your changes upon other
users unless they authorize them or you are the system administrator.
it exists
The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research
project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can
start using and developing it.

What the Hurd means According to Thomas Bushnell, BSG, the primary
architect of the Hurd:

`Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then,
`Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have
here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of
mutually recursive acronyms.

Status of the project

The Hurd, together with the GNU Mach microkernel, the GNU C Library and
the other GNU and non-GNU programs in the GNU system, provide a rather
complete and usable operating system today. It is not ready for production
use, as there are still many bugs and missing features. However, it should
be a good base for further development and non-critical application usage.

The GNU system (also called GNU/Hurd) is completely self-contained
(you can compile all parts of it using GNU itself). You can run several
instances of the Hurd in parallel, and debug even critical servers in
one Hurd instance with gdb running on another Hurd instance. You can
run the X window system, applications that use it, and advanced server
applications like the Apache webserver.

On the negative side, the support for character devices (like sound cards)
and other hardware is mostly missing. Although the POSIX interface
is provided, some additional interfaces like POSIX shared memory or
semaphores are still under development.

All this applies to the current development version, and not to the last
release (0.2). We encourage everybody who is interested to try out the
latest development version, and send feedback to the Hurd developers.

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 02:35:03AM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Sat,
Mar 15, 2008 at 08:48:34PM -0400, Ron Guerin wrote: > > Ruben Safir wrote:
> > > > > Package managers by and large, actually all of them, suck in
the first place > > > Your checklist is wishful thinking. And I'm not
talking out of my hat. I'm > > > talking from a SUSE 5.3 distro running
on a P2 right now which has been continually patched > > > by hand for
a LOT of years now. > > > > If by suck, you mean works extremely well
and makes millions of people > > happy, then yeah, most of them suck.
Our package managers suck. I wish > > everything sucked as much as my
package manager does. > > > > > The single biggest mistake someone can
make aside from a dread aweful > > > rm command in jest is to install the
Kernel from anything but an authenticed > > > source from kernel.org. >
> > > This advice runs counter to that of kernel maintainers, especially
one > > fellow named Linus Torvalds, who said quite some years ago that
the > > kernel.org kernel would henceforth not be a finished and ready
to use > > kernel, IHHO. The quote was something along the lines of
"that's the > > job of the packagers" > > > > > Also - for what it is
worth > > >From the Kernel README file: > > INSTALLING the kernel: >
> - If you install the full sources, put the kernel tarball in a >
directory where you have permissions (eg. your home directory) and >
unpack it: > > gzip -cd linux-2.6.XX.tar.gz | tar xvf -
> > Replace "XX" with the version number of the latest kernel. >
> Do NOT use the /usr/src/linux area! This area has a (usually >
incomplete) set of kernel headers that are used by the library header
> files. They should match the library, and not get messed up by >
whatever the kernel-du-jour happens to be. > > - You can also upgrade
between 2.6.xx releases by patching. Patches are > distributed in the
traditional gzip and the new bzip2 format. To > install by patching,
get all the newer patch files, enter the > top level directory of
the kernel source (linux-2.6.xx) and execute: > > gzip
-cd ../patch-2.6.xx.gz | patch -p1 > > > etc etc > > > "Yeah - I write
Free Software...so SUE ME" > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium

-- http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff http://www.nylxs.com -
Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like
Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world -
RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS -
RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers
to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in
our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
damned.< You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and
technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in
Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

  1. 2008-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Revolution rolls on...
  2. 2008-03-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] IBM elinux machines in europe
  3. 2008-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MacBeth
  4. 2008-03-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] EEE PC Revolution rolls on...
  5. 2008-03-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] WTC Progress?
  6. 2008-03-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU High School
  7. 2008-03-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly Turns Two! Jelly in Manhattan this Friday, 3/14]
  8. 2008-03-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08: Comments Requested
  9. 2008-03-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08: Comments Requested
  10. 2008-03-11 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08:
  11. 2008-03-12 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08:
  12. 2008-03-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08: Comments Requested
  13. 2008-03-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Spring Agenda - Meeting Result 3-4-08: Comments Requested
  14. 2008-03-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] gNU in the store
  15. 2008-03-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 03.17.08]
  16. 2008-03-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RIAA Ghestapo
  17. 2008-03-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RIAA Ghestopo II
  18. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Development in the US
  19. 2008-03-15 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Development in the US
  20. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Development in the US
  21. 2008-03-15 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Tech Development in the US
  22. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time Zonea
  23. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Time Zonea
  24. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nbs-at-sonic.net: [vox] [fwd] more publicity for the March 1 ACCRC - Untangle installfest]
  25. 2008-03-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  26. 2008-03-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  27. 2008-03-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  28. 2008-03-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  29. 2008-03-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  30. 2008-03-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  31. 2008-03-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ID theft
  32. 2008-03-18 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  33. 2008-03-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: jelly in brooklyn next friday 3-28-2008]
  34. 2008-03-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [frederick-at-nyu.edu: [free-culture] Invitation to ILI Colloquium on Net Censorship, Tue, March 25, 6:30pm]
  35. 2008-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [raj-at-brainlink.com: Brainlink is hiring. Can I post that on NYLUG?]
  36. 2008-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  37. 2008-03-20 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  38. 2008-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  39. 2008-03-20 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  40. 2008-03-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  41. 2008-03-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  42. 2008-03-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  43. 2008-03-20 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  44. 2008-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Benefits/drawbacks of building Linux as a package [was: Looking for recommendations on Linux Distro]
  45. 2008-03-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Frielich Um Purim
  46. 2008-03-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] [OT]Facebook app
  47. 2008-03-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: Pharmacist Position on McDonald Avenue]
  48. 2008-03-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  49. 2008-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  50. 2008-03-27 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  51. 2008-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [pshapiro-at-his.com: [Dclug] Asus releases SDK for Eee PC]
  52. 2008-03-27 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] linux and mp3s
  53. 2008-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Congestion Pricing Tax
  54. 2008-03-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Congestion Pricing Tax
  55. 2008-03-28 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  56. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: April 3rd]
  57. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] mixer and videorecorder
  58. 2008-03-28 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  59. 2008-03-27 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  60. 2008-03-28 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  61. 2008-03-28 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  62. 2008-03-28 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  63. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Interview Request: Flyp Media on Linux and Open Source
  64. 2008-03-28 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Interview Request: Flyp Media on Linux and Open Source
  65. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Interview Request: Flyp Media on Linux and Open Source
  66. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: Council Calendar - Week of 03.31.08]
  67. 2008-03-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Interview Request: Flyp Media on Linux and Open Source
  68. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Interview Request: Flyp Media on Linux and Open Source
  69. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  70. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl MYSQL GNU Job
  71. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jobs: Perl OOrientation
  72. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jobs - Perl and Database Development
  73. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jobs: Perl and IMAGEMAGIC
  74. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Job: Perl Website work
  75. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Perl Part Time Work
  76. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Yahoo Job - RHEL and Perl
  77. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  78. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Market Share
  79. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Redhat doing fine
  80. 2008-03-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Non-Free aint Free
  81. 2008-03-29 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  82. 2008-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  83. 2008-03-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  84. 2008-03-30 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  85. 2008-03-30 ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] freedom-it photos
  86. 2008-03-30 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU Market Share
  87. 2008-03-30 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  88. 2008-03-30 From: "armando fonseca" <afonsec2-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  89. 2008-03-30 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  90. 2008-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  91. 2008-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  92. 2008-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Books that mention NYLXS
  93. 2008-03-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] rewriting history
  94. 2008-03-31 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  95. 2008-03-31 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  96. 2008-03-31 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] rewriting history
  97. 2008-03-28 ronny abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Linux ready for the home desktop?
  98. 2008-03-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  99. 2008-03-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  100. 2008-03-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [events-at-flaggmgmt.com: Show and Conference tomorrow. 2008 Linux/Open Source, April 1, Roosevelt Hotel.]
  101. 2008-03-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd
  102. 2008-03-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  103. 2008-03-31 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fstab and macbook
  104. 2008-03-31 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: April 3rd

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