MESSAGE
| DATE | 2012-03-13 |
| FROM | Ron Guerin
|
| SUBJECT | Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] trying to save NYLUG
|
Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:33:22PM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
>
>> Read this. This is why I was putting in the effort.
>>
>
> so sunny say that he has done TONS for NYLUG unlike ron?
> where sunny says that ron went against NYLUG members by having a meeting at (evil) M$, but that no one objected?
> or that how sunny said that ron objected to using meetup (but ron didnt)?
> what is your point?
>
I'll also remind everyone to whatever extent it was on life support
through that time, Sunny did nothing about it. And he's done virtually
nothing at all since he came back until he and the others had to scurry
around being seen to be involved because they had daylight shining on
their misdeeds.
So if his argument his the coup was justified because NYLUG was
dysfunctional, he and his fellow junta members have largely themselves
to blame for their lack of participation. They are the last people that
deserve to be on any board that runs NYLUG. They took NYLUG from the
participant volunteers and gave it to themselves. I realize it makes
people uncomfortable to acknowledge the truth behind the people who
seized NYLUG and their motives, but surely no one expected any different
from me. I've always stood up for the truth in these situations, as
anyone around here who remembers NY Fair Use ought to know.
- Ron
>> 06:03:50 PM) sunny: hilarious drama is more like it
>> (06:04:12 PM) gniks left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
>> (06:04:41 PM) sunny: we're like the Jedi, we have the ability to get
>> shit done in an impressive manner, but are thrown curve balls one after
>> another
>> (06:07:31 PM) sunny: I like how the guy who accuses of excluding the
>> members has never once given a damn about what they think, AND was
>> willing to meet at space provided by Microsoft over the objections of
>> other Officers and with zero input of the membership
>> (06:07:39 PM) freezey left the room (quit: Quit: freezey).
>> (06:07:48 PM) sunny: yyeeaaahhh, Microsoft!
>> (06:07:53 PM) sunny: gives you the warm and fuzzies
>> (06:08:06 PM) sunny: and now, $5 per Android handset in patent licensing
>> (06:08:14 PM) Viza: dkr, that's like saying the customers who enter a
>> store represent the store
>> (06:08:30 PM) r0bby_ left the room (quit: Max SendQ exceeded).
>> (06:08:49 PM) sunny: I'm pretty sure Microsoft makes way more money with
>> Android licensing than they do with Windows Phone, lol
>> (06:09:01 PM) r0bby_ [~wakawaka-at-guifications/user/r0bby] entered the
>> room.
>> (06:09:01 PM) mode (+v r0bby_) by ChanServ
>> (06:09:06 PM) sunny: omg
>> (06:09:51 PM) mode (+o sunny) by ChanServ
>> (06:10:04 PM) mode (+b *!*wakawaka-at-guifications/user/r0bby) by sunny
>> (06:10:21 PM) sunny: r0bby_: I'll remove that in a few hours, when
>> hopefully you've fixed your client
>> (06:10:27 PM) mode (-o sunny) by sunny
>> (06:10:28 PM) Viza: Max SendQ exceeded
>> (06:10:32 PM) Viza: interesting
>> (06:11:12 PM) Viza: sunny, what are good business and/or marketing
>> books?
>> (06:11:14 PM) sunny: 99% of the time it means that his ISP is having
>> problems
>> (06:11:59 PM) sunny: it means that he was able to connect, but the ircd
>> couldn't push back the data to him, so it disconnected on him
>> (06:12:14 PM) sunny: Viza: I dunno anymore
>> (06:13:19 PM) r0bby_ left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset
>> by peer).
>> (06:13:29 PM) RonG: sunny you don't let the truth ever get in your way,
>> do you? Did we meet at Microsoft over anyone's objections? No, then
>> apparently I wasn't. And I'm the only one who asked what the members
>> wanted (regularly) and brought in new volunteers. What did you do in
>> the last few years? Oh yeah, pretty much nothing.
>> (06:14:29 PM) sunny: And in a few months I've managed to do far more
>> than you have in the same period of time. The Jedi are fast that way.
>> (06:15:00 PM) RonG: I've done more than you ever will.
>> (06:16:05 PM) sunny: Its possible, but giving something a bare life line
>> and stifling its growth isn't really doing much. You objected to
>> meetup.com incredibly strongly, and thats been the most awesome thing
>> ever.
>> (06:16:18 PM) RonG: That's another lie.
>> (06:16:26 PM) RonG: I can post those mails publicly if you'd like.
>> (06:17:00 PM) sunny: By all means! lets keep the kafka up on that list!
>> (06:17:44 PM) RonG: keep in mind, other people, have copies of them too.
>> (06:17:59 PM) RonG: and not just in your little coup cilque
>> (06:18:14 PM) sunny: With headers, and time stamps, and stuff worth
>> framing, I know! This technology! its Amazing!
>> (06:18:25 PM) LambdaCalculus37 left the room (quit: Quit: This computer
>> has gone to sleep).
>> (06:20:54 PM) sunny: the bad news continues for yahoo:
>> http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2012/03/opinion-baio-yahoo-patent-lie/
>> (06:21:05 PM) sunny: I seriously wonder what the tech fallout over there
>> is going to be
>> (06:21:39 PM) sunny: I wonder if some Yahoo Hadoop guys are just gonna
>> walk away
>> (06:22:21 PM) Viza: RonG - 10/16/2011 "I could possibly see buying a
>> meetup.com subscription on the basis of it bringing in lots of new
>> people"
>> (06:22:32 PM) Viza: RonG - 10/20/2011 "I guess Brian decided to shell
>> out for it. I've been of the impression that it would be a good thing
>> to be on Meetup, but have balked at the expense of it. Our entire
>> holiday party doesn't cost much more than a year at meetup.com"
>> (06:22:36 PM) Viza: ...
>> (06:24:49 PM) RonG: Yeah, that objection couldn't be more strong, could
>> it.
>> (06:30:49 PM) z244vv [41585845-at-gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.88.88.69]
>> entered the room.
>> (06:30:49 PM) mode (+v z244vv) by ChanServ
>> (06:31:05 PM) z244vv: hi, Robert menes?
>> (06:31:34 PM) Viza: he left 10 minutes ago
>> (06:32:18 PM) z244vv: oh fun, thanks
>> (06:34:27 PM) sunny: well somehow I don't have that in my #nylug.log
>> file
>> (06:34:29 PM) sunny: egrep -i "(rong.*.meetup.*.subscription)"
>> \#nylug.log
>> (06:34:34 PM) sunny: don't mock me for my regex, heh
>> (06:34:59 PM) sunny: I'm also fairly aware of Ron's stance on everything
>> web 2.0 social networking
>> (06:35:06 PM) Viza: that's from email, just used Ron's nickname for
>> brevity
>> (06:36:31 PM) RonG: I'm sure my "stance", which justifies making up
>> stories about me also explains why I opened the twitter and identi'ca
>> accounts and updated the facebook page.
>> (06:37:23 PM) RonG: clearly I am unreasonable about the use of social
>> networks for nylug
>> (06:39:46 PM) sunny: Viza: the rest of that email paints a picture i'm
>> *far* more used to. Selective copy/pasting skews things.
>> (06:40:19 PM) marrusl left the room (quit: Quit:
>> СчаÑтливо!).
>> (06:40:37 PM) marrusl
>> [~mark-at-207-237-25-43.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] entered
>> the room.
>> (06:40:38 PM) mode (+v marrusl) by ChanServ
>> (06:40:44 PM) sunny: I don't know what the insurance costs, but as a
>> cost-benefit thing I'd
>> (06:40:44 PM) sunny: prefer not to be spending money on that because at
>> the moment, I'm kind
>> (06:40:44 PM) sunny: of sour on the whole general meeting thing. I
>> could possibly see buying
>> (06:40:44 PM) sunny: a meetup.com subscription on the basis of it
>> bringing in lots of new
>> (06:40:44 PM) sunny: people, but I'm having trouble with the idea of all
>> the trouble that
>> (06:40:46 PM) sunny: goes into a general meeting that it's difficult to
>> look at anymore and
>> (06:40:49 PM) sunny: call it a successful thing worthy of the effort.
>> To add an insurance
>> (06:40:51 PM) sunny: expense (and other associated costs) on top of that
>> ... bleh.
>> (06:41:23 PM) RonG: That's got what to do with meetup and social
>> networking?
>> (06:41:33 PM) RonG: Now you're being selective.
>> (06:41:38 PM) RonG: That's about incorporation.
>> (06:42:20 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: that email has to do with meetup and
>> social networking because you comment on getting a meetup subscription
>> there, and it's the longer version of the mail Viza quoted from
>> (06:42:37 PM) RonG: that section had nothing to do with either.
>> (06:42:37 PM) Hydroxide: or, presumably is. you don't seem to be
>> disputing that it's a legit quote.
>> (06:43:10 PM) Hydroxide: uh, his sunny's paste included the phrase
>> "meetup.com subscription". presumably one of the things you said in that
>> section related to meetup.com
>> (06:43:15 PM) Hydroxide: -hisa
>> (06:43:16 PM) Hydroxide: +a
>> (06:43:20 PM) Hydroxide: (yay negative letters)
>> (06:43:22 PM) RonG: I said that if the meetings were not viable I
>> certainly didn't want to be spending money incorporating to keep them
>> going.
>> (06:43:32 PM) RonG: that isn't about social networks or meetup
>> (06:43:57 PM) gniks [~gniks-at-24.238.12.147] entered the room.
>> (06:43:57 PM) gniks left the room (quit: Changing host).
>> (06:43:57 PM) gniks [~gniks-at-unaffiliated/gniks] entered the room.
>> (06:43:57 PM) mode (+v gniks) by ChanServ
>> (06:44:40 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: um... you definitely commented on "buying
>> a meetup.com subscription" unless you're saying both Viza and sunny
>> misquoted you. I realize the main point of your mail was about insurance
>> and probably incorporation in general, but you still addressed
>> meetup.com
>> (06:45:09 PM) RonG: that was about two other things, the insurance issue
>> that always came up in incorporation discussion and whether or not the
>> presentation format was working anymore. (this is a discussion I'm still
>> willing to have, although the attendance at Google seems to prove
>> presentations are still working)
>> (06:45:18 PM) Viza: sunny, no disrespect but "You objected to meetup.com
>> incredibly strongly" skews things too
>> (06:45:51 PM) sunny: none taken, clearly I'm wrong, I'm not going to
>> lose any sleep over this
>> (06:45:51 PM) RonG: Hydroxide: I don't know what you're talking about,
>> honestly. I just explained to you how it has nothing to do with it, and
>> I'm sure one of these guys will be happy to forward it to you so you can
>> read it yourself.
>> (06:45:52 PM) sunny: ah ha
>> (06:45:57 PM) sunny: I fixed the regex
>> (06:46:07 PM) sunny: egrep -i "(rong*.meetup*.subscription)" \#nylug.log
>> | wc -l
>> (06:46:17 PM) sunny: not that it matters, but I knew my regex was no
>> good from before
>> (06:46:49 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: I realize that your email was making the
>> other points you say it does, and that you're correct about the main
>> focus of your email. I'm not disputing that. but your point about
>> meetup.com is in both Viza's quote and sunny's
>> (06:47:24 PM) Hydroxide: and, yes, I think the current meetings do show
>> that the presentation format is still working
>> (06:47:49 PM) sunny: but now I need to know how to do that regex without
>> regard to order.... oh god, haha
>> (06:48:01 PM) Hydroxide: most internal feedback I've heard about them
>> (not many responses but a handful) was positive
>> (06:48:15 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: use multiple chained egreps. slow but
>> simple.
>> (06:48:24 PM) Hydroxide: or even greps, no need for the e in that case
>> (06:48:40 PM) sunny: I know, but I was avoiding multiple pipes, lol
>> (06:48:50 PM) sunny: somwhere a grey beard is laughing at me :(
>> (06:50:19 PM) Hydroxide: regexps do have limits of flexibility. even in
>> any order it won't catch mentions of meetup without subscription
>> (06:50:55 PM) sunny: this is as simple and as good as it gets for me,
>> for now at least: egrep -i "rong.*meetup.*subscription"
>> (06:51:26 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: with that, it could be simpler by
>> removing the e in egrep. it's not helping you at all
>> (06:51:29 PM) Hydroxide: :)
>> (06:51:54 PM) sunny: haha, true
>> (06:53:48 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: if you want to forward me the email
>> yourself so that I can see whether both Viza and sunny added the bit
>> about meetup.com, I'm not going to stop you from doing that. if you're
>> claiming it wasn't your main focus, no point in sending the email since
>> I'm not disputing that
>> (06:54:10 PM) SeanTAllen left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246
>> seconds).
>> (06:54:50 PM) Viza: Hydroxide, RonG wasn't saying that he didn't discuss
>> meetup
>> (06:55:03 PM) Viza: the point was that sunny said RonG was strongly
>> against it while RonG said it was untrue
>> (06:55:34 PM) Viza: so the email quote is to show what RonG's opinion
>> was exactly
>> (06:55:44 PM) sunny: This is true
>> (06:56:04 PM) sunny: the rest of the meeting is pretty much "I'm not
>> sure if the general meetings are worth the hassle anymore blah blah
>> blah"
>> (06:56:05 PM) Hydroxide: Viza: if you read what RonG said to me several
>> lines earlier in this chat, he did say that "that section [of the email]
>> had nothing to do with [meetup and social networking]"
>> (06:56:10 PM) sunny: err, email
>> (06:56:36 PM) Hydroxide: I guess when he said "that section" he might
>> have meant "the section which was added by only the second quote and not
>> in the first quote"
>> (06:56:43 PM) Viza: yes exactly
>> (06:57:04 PM) Hydroxide: but my quoting of the text I was referring to
>> makes it hard for me to believe RonG didn't know what I was talking
>> about
>> (06:57:11 PM) RonG: and the "blah blah" would be you know, the details.
>> (06:57:11 PM) sunny: Hydroxide: so hows life with a -at-google.com email
>> addy?
>> (06:57:22 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: blah blah?
>> (06:57:23 PM) sunny: I just forward Jimmy the emails, so he can decide
>> for himself
>> (06:57:49 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: I'm enjoying working at Google.
>> (06:57:53 PM) ***Viza will trade beers for $100 adwords coupons
>> (06:58:06 PM) Hydroxide: heh, not sure that I can do that without
>> getting in truoble :)
>> (06:58:13 PM) Hydroxide: or even if I wanted to get in trouble :)
>> (06:58:21 PM) Viza: doh, i had to ask :p
>> (06:58:23 PM) sunny: Hydroxide: does it turn more heads than having a
>> -at-debian.org email addy? :)
>> (06:58:26 PM) RonG: I said it was selective quoting which had nothing to
>> do with what we were discussing
>> (06:58:29 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: I use it much less often
>> (06:58:31 PM) sunny: Viza: those things are pretty expensive
>> (06:58:34 PM) sunny: Hydroxide: which?
>> (06:58:39 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: google.com
>> (06:58:42 PM) sunny: ah
>> (06:58:59 PM) Viza: using adwords has opened mine eyes as to why Google
>> is filthy rich
>> (06:59:05 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: I mainly use google.com when I'm doing
>> work stuff, and rarely does that involve communicating beyond google. I
>> mean sometimes with vendors, occasionally with potential
>> employment/internship referrals, etc
>> (06:59:27 PM) Viza: $2 for a click, jesus!
>> (06:59:40 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: probably also if I contribute to a FOSS
>> project as part of my day job that I wasn't already involved in heavily
>> before I started here
>> (07:00:08 PM) Hydroxide: e.g. I do have a one-word patch to something to
>> submit once I bother running it by the relevant office to say "yeah go
>> ahead" (which they will)
>> (07:00:09 PM) sunny: Viza: the crazy part is, those $/click monies are
>> still better spent at google than just about anywhere else
>> (07:00:14 PM) Hydroxide: that I'll do with my -at-google.com
>> (07:00:29 PM) sunny: I can't remember the last time I thought to myself
>> "I should advertise on bing" lol
>> (07:00:37 PM) Hydroxide: Viza: it's public knowledge (via SEC filings)
>> that google gets ~96% of its revenue from ads
>> (07:00:43 PM) sunny: in fact, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want people
>> from bing anyways
>> (07:00:52 PM) sunny: they're too dumb to change search providers on
>> Internet Exploder
>> (07:01:32 PM) Viza: i changed search providers on Internet Explorer by
>> using Chrome instead >.>
>> (07:02:11 PM) ***Hydroxide read the broader email. yes, it's mostly
>> about what RonG says it is, including that section. nowhere did I
>> dispute that. it's not, however, true that that section had "nothing to
>> do" with meetup or social networking
>> (07:02:17 PM) Hydroxide: in fact the whole quote is a self-contained
>> section of the email
>> (07:02:20 PM) SeanTAllen
>> [u4855-at-gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xharcsiqjyfmweof] entered the room.
>> (07:02:21 PM) mode (+v SeanTAllen) by ChanServ
>> (07:02:28 PM) sunny: haha, the first thing I do on a virgin Microsoft
>> Windows box is install google tool bar for ie
>> (07:02:35 PM) sunny: and that changes all the search stuff for me
>> (07:02:36 PM) sunny: whew
>> (07:02:38 PM) Hydroxide: and while most of it isn't about meetup.com, he
>> does bring it up there as something that he might consider worthwhile in
>> some situations
>> (07:02:44 PM) Hydroxide: which is what the quote said
>> (07:03:05 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: on personal machines I don't use any
>> vendor's toolbar, google or yahoo or microsoft or otherwise
>> (07:03:29 PM) Hydroxide: actually even on work I don't think I use
>> google's toolbar, though I do usually use chrome at work (firefox is
>> available too)
>> (07:03:36 PM) RonG: I have no problem with the publication of that mail
>> so everyone can decide for themselves. I've said all along more
>> daylight would be a good thing.
>> (07:03:47 PM) sunny: Internet exploder has terrible pop up blocking
>> support
>> (07:04:02 PM) Hydroxide: when I use IE for some reason I do set it to
>> google as the search thing
>> (07:04:15 PM) sunny: its the only OS and browser combination I must
>> install a vendor toolbar
>> (07:04:44 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: I find it rather silly that you're even
>> bothering to dispute that you mentioned meetup.com in that section of
>> the email. it's not like a horrible evil secret that would be harmful to
>> admit
>> (07:05:03 PM) Viza: wtf, he isn't disputing that
>> (07:05:09 PM) RonG: dude. please. You know what I said.
>> (07:05:15 PM) Hydroxide: Viza: I think he is
>> (07:05:25 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: please correct me if I'm wrong
>> (07:05:29 PM) Hydroxide: about what you're disputing
>> (07:05:33 PM) RonG: I keep trying
>> (07:05:35 PM) rockets left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset
>> by peer).
>> (07:05:48 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: are you disputing that you mentioned
>> meetup.com in that section of the email?
>> (07:05:50 PM) Viza: he was just saying that posting the rest of the
>> quote was pointless since it didn't relate to the conversation
>> (07:05:50 PM) RonG: but you do love the argument
>> (07:06:16 PM) RonG: perhaps this is why you want to be a lawyer
>> (07:06:17 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: not really. I've thought about stopping
>> several times and will decide to stop soon
>> (07:06:38 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: but you seem to imply dishonesty into any
>> discrepancy or misunderstanding or miscommunication
>> (07:07:03 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: therefore, I didn't want to let it linger
>> and cause possible rants against me in the future
>> (07:07:23 PM) Hydroxide: for most people I would have stopped a long
>> time ago
>> (07:07:23 PM) RonG: oh boy.
>> (07:09:44 PM) sunny: oh god
>> (07:09:47 PM) sunny: speaking of the devil
>> (07:09:49 PM) sunny:
>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/microsoft-warns-expect-exploits-for-critical-windows-worm-hole/10745
>> (07:09:58 PM) RonG: I think my you know, 13 year reputation in the
>> community should assure you you're in do danger of me going off on a
>> rant against you.
>> (07:10:11 PM) sunny: zero day PRE-AUTHENTICATION RDP exploit
>> (07:10:31 PM) Viza: o.O
>> (07:10:51 PM) Hydroxide: sunny: wow
>> (07:11:30 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: all it would take is you concluding that
>> I had "joined the coup clique" and then you might. which could happen if
>> I ever have time and motivation to volunteer for NYLUG more than helping
>> to host meetings.
>> (07:11:48 PM) marrusl left the room (quit: Remote host closed the
>> connection).
>> (07:12:00 PM) RonG: Hydroxide: Uh huh. And that totally sounds
>> reasonable.
>> (07:12:55 PM) marrusl
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>> (07:13:29 PM) Hydroxide: RonG: no idea what tone of voice you said that
>> with, so I'll leave it at that.
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