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DATE 2013-12-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2013-12-17
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] and in real news this week...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25410064



16 December 2013 Last updated at 23:55 ET
NSA mass phone surveillance programme 'unconstitutional'

A US judge has ruled the National Security Agency's mass collection of
telephone data unconstitutional.

Federal District Judge Richard Leon said the electronic spy agency's
practice was an "arbitrary invasion".

The agency's collection of "metadata" including telephone numbers and
times and dates of calls was exposed by ex-NSA contractor Edward
Snowden.

The White House dismissed the suggestion Mr Snowden receive amnesty if
he stopped leaking documents.

In his ruling in a Washington DC federal court on Monday, Mr Leon called
the NSA's surveillance programme "indiscriminate" and an "almost
Orwellian technology that enables the government to store and analyze
the phone metadata of every telephone user in the United States".
'Irreparable harm'

A former NSA general counsel told the BBC the government would have a
difficult time appealing the ruling

The ruling came in a lawsuit brought by conservative activist Larry
Klayman, a user of a Verizon mobile telephone who challenged the NSA's
collection of metadata on his behalf and that of a client.

The NSA had ordered Verizon - one of the largest phone companies in the
US - to disclose to it metadata, including telephone numbers, calling
card numbers and the serial numbers of phones, of millions of calls it
processes in which at least one party is in the US.

Mr Leon ruled the plaintiffs had demonstrated "a substantial likelihood
of success on the merits of their Fourth Amendment claim and that they
will suffer irreparable harm absent… relief", referring to the clause
in the US constitution that bars unreasonable search and seizure by the
government.

He issued a preliminary injunction against the NSA surveillance
programme but suspended the order to allow for an appeal by the justice
department, thus enabling the programme to continue for now.

Mr Klayman told the BBC the ruling "could have immediate impact.

"If the NSA continues to do this, they're now on notice that it's
illegal, and we will seek to have them held in criminal contempt of
court."

Through Glenn Greenwald, a journalist with whom he has close ties, Mr
Snowden issued a statement hailing the ruling.

"I acted on my belief that the NSA's mass surveillance programs would
not withstand a constitutional challenge, and that the American public
deserved a chance to see these issues determined by open courts," he
wrote, according to the New York Times.

"Today, a secret program authorized by a secret court was, when exposed
to the light of day, found to violate Americans' rights," he added. "It
is the first of many."

Former NSA general counsel Stewart Baker told the BBC's Katty Kay the
ruling was "overcomeable" on appeal, but that Mr Leon's lengthy,
detailed opinion would pose a "real burden" to the US government.

"This issue is going to get litigated and it's going to be difficult for
the government for some months or even years to come," he said.

Earlier on Monday, the White House rejected the suggestion that Mr
Snowden be granted amnesty, a day after a top NSA official publicly
suggested a deal could be reached to keep Mr Snowden from leaking more
documents.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said the US government continued to
press Russia - where Mr Snowden has been granted asylum - to return him
to the US.

"There's been no change in our position," he told reporters.

"He faces felony charges here, he ought to be returned to the United
States, again, where he will face full due process and protection under
our system of justice, that we hope he will avail himself of."

On Sunday, Richard Ledgett, head of the NSA's task force investigating
damage from Mr Snowden's leaks, discussed the possibility of an amnesty
deal on the US television channel CBS.

"My personal view is, yes it's worth having a conversation about," he
said.

"I would need assurances that the remainder of the data could be
secured, and my bar for those assurances would be very high, would be
more than just an assertion on his part."
'Personal opinion'
File picture of the NSA headquarters The NSA has been making efforts to
be seen as more transparent

Mr Carney said on Monday that the proposal represented Mr Ledgett's
"personal opinion" and such decisions were ultimately made by the
Department of Justice.

Earlier, NSA Director Gen Keith Alexander also dismissed the idea.

"This is analogous to a hostage taker taking 50 people hostage, shooting
10, and then say, 'if you give me full amnesty, I'll let the other 40
go'. What do you do?"

Earlier this month, Alan Rusbridger, editor of the Guardian newspaper,
which has published many of the Snowden documents, told UK MPs that only
1% of files leaked by Mr Snowden had been published by the newspaper.

The US has charged Mr Snowden with theft of government property,
unauthorised communication of national defence information, and wilful
communication of classified communications intelligence.

Each of the charges carries a maximum 10-year prison sentence.

At the weekend, the NSA allowed a CBS television crew into its
headquarters for the first time, in an effort to be more open about what
the agency does with the data it collects.

  1. 2013-12-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  2. 2013-12-01 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  3. 2013-12-01 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  4. 2013-12-02 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook supports open-source software course
  5. 2013-12-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  6. 2013-12-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook supports open-source software course
  7. 2013-12-03 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Facebook supports open-source software course
  8. 2013-12-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  9. 2013-12-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Hot jobs at HP OMS
  10. 2013-12-04 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  11. 2013-12-04 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  12. 2013-12-04 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  13. 2013-12-04 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  14. 2013-12-04 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  15. 2013-12-04 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  16. 2013-12-04 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  17. 2013-12-04 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] double-entendres
  18. 2013-12-04 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] double-entendres
  19. 2013-12-04 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  20. 2013-12-04 eminker-at-gmail.com Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Big Mike Richardson
  21. 2013-12-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Big Mike Richardson
  22. 2013-12-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Holiday Gathering
  23. 2013-12-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest perhaps Thursday?
  24. 2013-12-09 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] laptop repair
  25. 2013-12-10 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest perhaps Thursday?
  26. 2013-12-11 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  27. 2013-12-11 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  28. 2013-12-12 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  29. 2013-12-12 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  30. 2013-12-12 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  31. 2013-12-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  32. 2013-12-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  33. 2013-12-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] bored
  34. 2013-12-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] women are bigots!
  35. 2013-12-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Gimp Magazine
  36. 2013-12-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] and in real news this week...
  37. 2013-12-17 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [luny-talk] Explain Shell!
  38. 2013-12-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] hacked linux boxes
  39. 2013-12-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] who watches the wathers
  40. 2013-12-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  41. 2013-12-20 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Minimum GUI Linux
  42. 2013-12-22 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [Israel.pm] New job opening - Perl based system <-> SAP-PI integration
  43. 2013-12-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the mta has a message for you
  44. 2013-12-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: Invitation: Enabling the AMD 64-bit ARM Server
  45. 2013-12-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS blames Child Abductors for Social Media Addictions
  46. 2013-12-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error
  47. 2013-12-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  48. 2013-12-29 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  49. 2013-12-29 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  50. 2013-12-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [conspire] NSA ruling error
  51. 2013-12-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  52. 2013-12-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  53. 2013-12-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error
  54. 2013-12-30 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  55. 2013-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  56. 2013-12-30 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  57. 2013-12-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]
  58. 2013-12-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [rms-at-gnu.org: Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NSA ruling error]

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