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DATE 2017-05-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2017-05-05
FROM Rick Moen
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Panix #26803] ------> Forget FCC /
Quoting Mancini, Sabin (DFS) (Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov):

> My issue was that I was ( is ) getting tons of spam emails, and unsubscribing was ignored in a number of cases; sometimes resulted in getting even more spam from other sources.

Main lessons from my many years participating on NANAE
(net.admin.net-abuse.email) include:

1. Spammers lie.
2. Falling for the 'unsubscribe me' trick just gets your address on
the higher-priced list of addresses known to reach a human, and
thus gets you more spam.



> I should look into SORBS and see if they would help with this.

I should explain what a DNS blocklist
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL) is, and how they are used, and by
whom.

A DNS BL is just a DNS authoritative nameserver with a database back-end
for its zonefile data, say for zone dnsbl.example.com, consisting of 'A'
records mapping to (typically) 127.0.0.2 . The zonefile data houses IP
addresses fed to the databases as recently known sources of SMTP spam.
Any person (or software process) in the outside world wishing to know
whether a specific IP address has been listed in the blocklist need only
do a DNS lookup. Consider for example my MTA for linuxmafia.com,
running on IP address 198.144.195.186 . If for some reason the operator
of the DNS BL thinks my IP has been doing bad things, it will add

186.195.144.198 IN A 127.0.0.2

...to the dnsbl.example.com zonefile. Sometimes, there would also be an
associated TXT record recording the reason why my IP has been recently
believed to be badly behaved.

Although in principle _anyone_ including desktop users could use the
publicly available information in one or more of the many DNS BLs, their
main (and to my knowledge sole) use from the time Paul Vixie started the
first one at the MAPS (Mail Abuse Prevention System) project until today
has been by Internet SMTP mail servers, trying to decide whether to 250
Accept incoming mail, or 554 Reject or 450 Tempreject that mail
(http://www.serversmtp.com/en/smtp-error). It is common to configure
MTA software (e.g., Exim4, Postfix) to consult a number of DNS BLs'
opinions about a delivering IP's reputability before saying 250 Accept.

(As a side-note, it's always, always, always much more effective to do
spam-rejection _before_ the destination SMTP server accepts the mail, as
an integral part of the SMTP conversation. Attempts to do
spam-filtering at any point after delivery suffer a number of problems
such as backscatter spam, and are just not particularly effective. This
is why attempting to block spam at the level of your personal mail
client (MUA) or MDA process such as an IMAP fetch is a losing game.)


If you do operate your own mail server, as I and Ruben do, and choose to
configure your MTA to consult DNS BLs, it's really vital to not just
consult _only one_ DNS BL, and not regard it as an ultimate authority.
For one thing, any one DNS BL can be spectacularly wrong or misguided
about some delivering IP, and also DNS BLs have a tendency to come and
go. Sometimes, they are shut down in particularly troubling ways, like
a few historical ones that were deliberately caused upon being shut down
to return '127.0.0.2' for quite a few months on _any_ query. This
reportedly was the operator's way of getting using systems to wake up
and cease trying to query the blocklist -- by returning 'Yep, that's a
spammer' answers to _any_ query. This certainly got people's attention,
but was pretty disruptive behaviour.

Locally, I have SpamAssassin running as a system daemon (spamd) query a
number of DNS BLs with each answer being factored into spamd's
'spamicity' number that, in turn, gets returned to Exim4, my MTA, before
the MTA decides whether to issue 250 Accept or not. This is one form of
effective architecture, and there certainly are others.


> One of the Federal agencies is responsible for assisting citizens with
> this issue, I forget whether it as FTC or FCC, but you will find
> references to it on their website; BUT, just try and get help from
> them- they are totally useless and it will go nowhere.

Federal Trade Commission has a very limited mandate concerning UCE
(unsolicited commercial e-mail, 'spam') that is often badly misunderstood.
It is charged by Congress with using administrative law to enforce the
CAN-SPAM Act. If FTC can track down violators, it can charge them
big-money penalties, but first the spammers must be tracked down, and
if they're outside the FTC's reach (e.g., in Eastern Europe) as many if
not most are, FTC basically cannot reach them.

FTC _does_ do a great deal of enforcement against major spamhauses,
including criminal prosecution. This is of course overwhelmingly
against domestic spammers. But it's a big world.

https://www.law360.com/articles/903203/ftc-spam-marketers-settle-charges-in-fake-diet-pill-case
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3078602/ns/technology_and_science-security/t/ftc-no-silver-bullet-spam-fight/

[...]
The FTC has brought more than 53 actions against spammers who used
deceptive content or used deceptive "from" addresses or subject lines,
among other charges. Last month the Commission requested a federal court
order to shut down a pornographic spammer accused of sending deceptive
e-mails to lure consumers to an adult site. In recent cases, the FTC is
alleging that failing to honor "remove me" messages from an e-mail list
is a deceptive practice.
[...]

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  104. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  105. 2017-05-15 FarSight Data Systems <msh-at-farsight-data.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  106. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] opencon
  107. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  108. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  109. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Red Hat Conference at Ricks House
  110. 2017-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] bigendian
  111. 2017-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] command line google
  112. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] is there a future?
  113. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Haredi entrepreneurs wow tech world at NYC
  114. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] openssl troubles and Manjaro
  115. 2017-05-17 IEEE Computer Society <csconnection-at-computer.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Get Embedded Systems Training at SEMICON West
  116. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] how much can you code in an hour?
  117. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Manjaro information
  118. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] There is a Mayoral election this year if you
  119. 2017-05-18 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  120. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  121. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  122. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  123. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  124. 2017-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  125. 2017-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  126. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  127. 2017-05-19 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate: Be
  128. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  129. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Hey,
  130. 2017-05-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: THE DEUTSCH REPORT: News From Councilman
  131. 2017-05-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year beyond
  132. 2017-05-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  133. 2017-05-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  134. 2017-05-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  135. 2017-05-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] ,
  136. 2017-05-25 From: "IEEE Spectrum Tech Alert" <techalert-at-ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] A Safer, More Energy-Dense Li-Ion Battery;
  137. 2017-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Movie of the week
  138. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Disrupting reason
  139. 2017-05-26 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Your EMB Weekly Newsletter is HERE!
  140. 2017-05-26 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism
  141. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] This is a pivotal moment in history
  142. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Dev. Loop
  143. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Don't miss an issue of Fossil News!
  144. 2017-05-26 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  145. 2017-05-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  146. 2017-05-26 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  147. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  148. 2017-05-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  149. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  150. 2017-05-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  151. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  152. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  153. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Jewish Philosophy of the Universe
  154. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  155. 2017-05-28 From: "[RSS/Feed] nixCraft: Linux Tips, Hacks, Tutorials, Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] nixCraft Linux / UNIX Newsletter
  156. 2017-05-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  157. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] London calling
  158. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Learn] London calling
  159. 2017-05-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  160. 2017-05-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  161. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] London calling
  162. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] HP Z2 Mini G3 Workstation
  163. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Cryptography currencies in the real world
  164. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] voice activated computing
  165. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Memorial Day
  166. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Drug dealers dream
  167. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] open access education
  168. 2017-05-29 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #305 - I thought summer was a
  169. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  170. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  171. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  172. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] to my Indian friends
  173. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] nice OS technical graphics
  174. 2017-05-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  175. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Webinar] Intel and SUSE - Simplifying HPC
  176. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Drug dealers dream
  177. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] openscience
  178. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] open access education
  179. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] ada tutorials
  180. 2017-05-30 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <publicprograms-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Don't Miss the Last SciCafe of the Season!
  181. 2017-05-30 From: "IEEE ComSoc Meetings" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] IEEE 5G Summit Honolulu: Attend in-person or
  182. 2017-05-30 From: "Jefferson, Lindsey" <jelindse-at-amazon.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Come meet us in New York City!
  183. 2017-05-31 Pharmacist e-Link <communications-at-pharmacistelink.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Drug Lobbyists' Battle Cry Over Prices: Blame the
  184. 2017-05-31 dha-at-panix.com Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] June Social

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