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DATE 2017-05-01

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Key: archive Value: 2017-05-01

Key: id Value: 546583

MESSAGE
DATE 2017-05-18
FROM Rick Moen
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Thu May 18 13:39:19 2017
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Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com):

> I haven't had a chance to look at this lately but lets review. Google
> is involved in two of the most important cases of the 21st century ...
> the Java usage case, and the Books Scanning Case...

OK, after telephone conversation with Ruben and then checking the
record, here's some substantive analysis by way of correcting what I
wrote earlier:

In 2014, Oracle appealed a particular finding of United States District
Court for the Northern District of California about copyright
eligibility of copyrightable ('expressive') elements in 37 'API'
programs, that house the declaring code and the structure, sequence, and
organization of the software architecture. District court had found
those elements not expressive but rather functional, hence ineligible
for copyright coverage. On appeal, Court of Appeals for the Federal
Circuit disagreed, =


Quoting a passage out of the appellate decision:

With respect to the 37 packages at issue, =E2=80=9CGoogle be- lieved Java
application programmers would want to find the same 37 sets of
functionalities in the new Android system callable by the same names as
used in Java.=E2=80=9D Id. To achieve this result, Google copied the decl=
aring
source code from the 37 Java API packages verbatim, inserting
that code into parts of its Android software. In doing so, Google copied
the elaborately organized taxonomy of all the names of methods, classes,
interfaces, and packages=E2=80=94 the =E2=80=9Coverall system of organized
names =E2=80=94 covering 37 packages, with over six hundred classes, with=
over six
thousand methods.=E2=80=9D Copyrightability Decision, 872 F. Supp. 2d at =
999.
The parties and district court referred to this taxonomy of expressions
as the =E2=80=9Cstructure, se- quence, and organization=E2=80=9D or =E2=
=80=9CSSO=E2=80=9D of the 37
packages.

The court recaps the notion of non-literal copying of creative elements,
referencing leading cases Computer Assocs. Int=E2=80=99l v. Altai, 982 F.2d=
693,
704-05 (2d Cir. 1992) and Johnson Controls, Inc. v. Phoenix Control
Sys., Inc., 886 F.2d 1173, 1175 (9th Cir. 1989). This is a generally
important matter you need to follow to grasp the details of copyright
law. If you're not clear on it, look at the coverage in item
'Abstraction, Filtration, Comparison' on
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law/. In this case it's
partially moot, because Google concedes that it literally copied the 37
programs' declaring code including their 'sequence and organization' -- =

but Oracle alleges both literal -and- non-literal copying, that in
creating Dalvik Google copied part of the 'structure, sequence, and
organization' (SSO) verbatim and paraphrased the rest by writing
different but structurally identical implmenting code. =


So, the matter comes down, as usual, to whether substantial copying of
expressive elements occurred, and the appeals court confirms that =

distinguishing whether candidate software elements are best
characterised as expressive or as functional (e.g., having their
structure dictated by compatibility) is very thorny. This is part of
the (very key) expression/idea dichotomy: Useful ideas/inventions are
eligible for patent but not copyright. Creative expressions are
eligible for copyright but not patent.

Merger dictrine: This is an exception to the expression/idea dichotomy.
If there are only a limited ways to express an idea, then the idea is
said to 'merge' with its expression, and the expression becomes
ineligible for copyright. The trial court cited merger as one reason
for concluding that copying of the 37 programs was not copyright
infringement. The appeals court, though, found that the trial court
erred on the facts: Oracle did _not_ have only constrained options as
to the selection and arrangement of the 7000 lines Google copied.

Short phrases doctrine: Another part of standard copyright doctrine is
that short phrases are ineligible for copyright. The trial court
classified Android's methods and class names as short phrases, hence not
infringing Oracle's equivalents, but the appeals court says the relevant
question for copyrightability purposes isn't whether the new work
contains short phrases but rather whether those phrases are creative,
i.e., that _merely_ being short doesn't make something automatically
uncopyrightable. The Court of Appeals also pointed out that an original
_combination_ of short elemements can be copyrightable.

Scenes a Faire doctrine: Expressive elements of a work of authorship
are not entitled to protection against infringement if they are
standard, stock, or common to a topic, or if they necessarily follow
from a common theme or setting. There were several grounds on which the
appeals court says the trial court got this wrong, and I'm running out
of patience for boiling down complex legal analysis to a short mailing
list post, so read the goddamned opinion, please.

In fact, that would be my overall take on _your_ take on this. Read the
goddamned opinion, and stop copying and pasting from the press and
Wikipedia.

THe appeals court remanded the case back to the trial court to re-hear =

Google's affirmative defence of fair use with its standard four factors
that I'm sure you know all about because you read copyright
caselaw.

If Google loses, that's too bad for Google's wallet, but doesn't
actually make any change to copyright law. And I'll note, as the
appeals court did, that Google didn't need to copy the SSO code; they
just found it convenient to do so.

The compatibility Google sought to foster was not with Ora- cle=E2=80=99s=
Java
platform or with the JVM central to that plat- form. Instead, Google
wanted to capitalize on the fact that software developers were already
trained and experi- enced in using the Java API packages at issue. The
district court agreed, finding that, as to the 37 Java API packages,
"Google believed Java application programmers would want to find the
same 37 sets of functionalities in the new Android system callable by
the same names as used in Java." Copyrightability Decision, 872 F. Supp.
2d at 978. Google=E2=80=99s interest was in accelerating its develop- ment
process by "leverag[ing] Java for its existing base of developers."

Well, maybe not doing that in the future might be a better idea. Dalvik
didn't need to copy the SSO code at all, and if it hadn't, Google
wouldn't be going back to District Court, again.

Anyway, Ruben, I don't take seriously what you say on court cases and
don't even spend more than about 60 seconds checking out what you say,
because all you ever do is copy-and-paste from elsewhere and then
editorialise. Which means you bring zero real understanding to the
table for yourself or anyone else. So, read the goddamned caselaw for a
change.


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  31. 2017-05-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Panix #26803] Undelivered Mail
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  38. 2017-05-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Why gmail sucks ===> You don't mention that
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  52. 2017-05-08 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Re: [Panix #26803] Undelivered Mail
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  82. 2017-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: With regard to a letter of
  83. 2017-05-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  84. 2017-05-12 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Morphology source code
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  87. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  88. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  89. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  90. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  91. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  92. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  93. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Cloud Security seminar
  94. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] cyberwarfare
  95. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] IOTs and key infrastructure security
  96. 2017-05-13 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Cyber Security and Critical Infrastructure
  97. 2017-05-14 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  98. 2017-05-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Movie of the week
  99. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] linkedin - privacy pirates
  100. 2017-05-15 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #303 - Perl Toolchain Summit 2017
  101. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] best jobs on earth
  102. 2017-05-15 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  103. 2017-05-15 FarSight Data Systems <msh-at-farsight-data.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  104. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  105. 2017-05-15 FarSight Data Systems <msh-at-farsight-data.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  106. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] opencon
  107. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  108. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Death of Microsoft
  109. 2017-05-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Red Hat Conference at Ricks House
  110. 2017-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] bigendian
  111. 2017-05-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] command line google
  112. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] is there a future?
  113. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Haredi entrepreneurs wow tech world at NYC
  114. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] openssl troubles and Manjaro
  115. 2017-05-17 IEEE Computer Society <csconnection-at-computer.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Get Embedded Systems Training at SEMICON West
  116. 2017-05-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] how much can you code in an hour?
  117. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Manjaro information
  118. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] There is a Mayoral election this year if you
  119. 2017-05-18 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  120. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  121. 2017-05-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  122. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  123. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  124. 2017-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  125. 2017-05-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  126. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fair USe
  127. 2017-05-19 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate: Be
  128. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] The rising shoutdown of the electorate
  129. 2017-05-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Hey,
  130. 2017-05-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: THE DEUTSCH REPORT: News From Councilman
  131. 2017-05-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year beyond
  132. 2017-05-22 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  133. 2017-05-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  134. 2017-05-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] deficit is how much you spend in one year
  135. 2017-05-23 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] ,
  136. 2017-05-25 From: "IEEE Spectrum Tech Alert" <techalert-at-ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] A Safer, More Energy-Dense Li-Ion Battery;
  137. 2017-05-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Movie of the week
  138. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Disrupting reason
  139. 2017-05-26 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Your EMB Weekly Newsletter is HERE!
  140. 2017-05-26 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism
  141. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] This is a pivotal moment in history
  142. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Dev. Loop
  143. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Don't miss an issue of Fossil News!
  144. 2017-05-26 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  145. 2017-05-26 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  146. 2017-05-26 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  147. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  148. 2017-05-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  149. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  150. 2017-05-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  151. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  152. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  153. 2017-05-26 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Jewish Philosophy of the Universe
  154. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  155. 2017-05-28 From: "[RSS/Feed] nixCraft: Linux Tips, Hacks, Tutorials, Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] nixCraft Linux / UNIX Newsletter
  156. 2017-05-28 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  157. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] London calling
  158. 2017-05-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Learn] London calling
  159. 2017-05-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  160. 2017-05-29 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  161. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] London calling
  162. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] HP Z2 Mini G3 Workstation
  163. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Cryptography currencies in the real world
  164. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] voice activated computing
  165. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Memorial Day
  166. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Drug dealers dream
  167. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] open access education
  168. 2017-05-29 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #305 - I thought summer was a
  169. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  170. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  171. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  172. 2017-05-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] to my Indian friends
  173. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] nice OS technical graphics
  174. 2017-05-30 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] I am so sick of this yellow journalism: see
  175. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] [Webinar] Intel and SUSE - Simplifying HPC
  176. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] Drug dealers dream
  177. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] openscience
  178. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout of NYLXS] open access education
  179. 2017-05-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] ada tutorials
  180. 2017-05-30 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <publicprograms-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Don't Miss the Last SciCafe of the Season!
  181. 2017-05-30 From: "IEEE ComSoc Meetings" <noreply-at-comsoc.org> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] IEEE 5G Summit Honolulu: Attend in-person or
  182. 2017-05-30 From: "Jefferson, Lindsey" <jelindse-at-amazon.com> Subject: [Hangout of NYLXS] Come meet us in New York City!
  183. 2017-05-31 Pharmacist e-Link <communications-at-pharmacistelink.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Drug Lobbyists' Battle Cry Over Prices: Blame the
  184. 2017-05-31 dha-at-panix.com Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] June Social

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