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DATE 2008-10-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2008-10-23
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
From lest-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Oct 23 01:28:39 2008
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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:28:33 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
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To: "Carlos E. R." , OS-en ,
hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
References: <20081022171455.GA8141-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> <48FF8B4F.6030801-at-rogers.com> <48FFB0FB.5000209-at-si.on.ca> <48FFC9E0.1040209-at-rogers.com>
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Carlos E. R. wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 2008-10-22 at 20:48 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
>
>> Carlos E. R. said the following on 10/22/2008 08:07 PM:
>
>
>>>> As for "thousands" of syslog entries - that also means cron would be
>>>> producing thousands of emails.
>>>
>>> I don't mean that.
>>>
>>> .....
>
>>>> The delivery doesn't have to be by mail - though it could with local
>>>> delivery. I could be by a message sent to a window or a pop-up.
>>>
>>> Certainly not! It would not work for headless machines or text only
>>> machines, or machines where the administrator is not logged it.
>>
>> Indeed. Which is why SWATCH and other syslog watchers can pipe to
>> various destinations - SMS, pager... whatever. It doesn't have to be a
>> pop-up.
>>
>> The point is to uncouple.
>>
>> More to the point, use of syslog integrates better with enterprise-level
>> tools that consolidate reporting. I've installed these in banks and
>> telcos; all the syslog gets routed to a central server and a database
>> where it can be sliced and diced and used to produce pretty graphs or
>> management, trend analysis, incident tracking feeds to ITIL .... and
>> much more.
>
> BTDT :-)
>
> But openSUSE is not a big enterprise distro, it is a "user" distro.

Yeah - and every desktop needs Postfix? No. Aside which, what does
that mean. OpenSuSe can't
run big iron because Novell markets something else?

It seems to function fine on large systems.

>
>
>> Yes, I think piping syslog into Oracle is heavy stuff, but when you're a
>> bank coordinating an IT staff in the hundreds and need management and
>> tracking tools, this is the kind of thing that gets lapped up.
>>
>> The issue here is that by not having strong coupling this becomes an
>> option where the user can define where the results go.
>
>
> But you see, if you "decouple" the requirement or dependency of an
> smtp server by services such as cron, I could not have my preferred
> method of having cron mail me.
>

I don't really care what your preferred method of getting information
from cron is. I do care that you THINK that if you decouple them that
you can't get mail with Cron?

What? Is that a sensible line of reasoning? Should adduser also
require postfix because users might need mail?



> I don't object to your idea of having it all in the syslog: good for
> you. But I want it on mail, as it has been for years and years here,
> so the dependency has to stay, so that you can choose at config time.
>
> Request, if you like, a configuration option for cron output to be
> sent to syslog or to email, ok, fine; but the dependency can not be
> broken, because it would force us to have cron output your way.
>

Your so locked in that it is UNBELIEVABLE. My god. I really need to
find a different distro. Unbunuto was too limited. Debian packages
suck. Gentoo is impracticable.

All I want is a darn laptop to run wmaker, which can use its wifi, get
on the net, use open office and play some video. SuSE 9.1 did this in
600megs of space with no postfix.
except for the wmaker part, Xandros did this for my eeepc. I don't even
have room for Open Office because of the insane co-dependencies.

Frankly. you guys have gone nuts. I can't remove openldap, sasl
bluetooth, SAMBA and much more

> After all, it's just some megabytes more, at worst.
>
> But I fear that such a change would imply many changes to many
> scripts, so it will not be done - unless perhaps somebody designs and
> supply it as an alternative package(s) (see buildservice, community
> repos, etc).
>
>
>>>>>> I really hate all these dependencies that arise out of lack of
>>>>>> consideration of alternatives.
>>>>> Then perhaps you should design a distro with those premises >:-)
>>>> Why? I'm not in the business.
>>>
>>> Then select another distro that does it your way :-)
>>
>> You may have time to try out all the distros; some people are paid to do
>> that. I'm not.
>
> No, I searched around once, I choosed, and I stayed. If I really
> wanted something I could not find here, I would then see if I could
> make it myself or look around again for it.
>
> That's how things are.
>
> If I were paid to install Linux for a company with certain "special"
> requirements, then it would be my job to find and search for it; or
> I'd have searched beforehand, and charge for that knowledge; or I'd
> request the company to hire somebody with that knowledge.
>
> openSUSE folks are not paid, either, to tailor the distro to each one
> preferences! :-)
>
>
>
>
>> A simple code change uncouples a dependency.
>> This thread started on with people complaining about a number of
>> dependencies. SUSE has got rid of dependencies that other
>> distributions have - why not keep up that good work. Not all
>> dependencies - yours and others - are actually necessary.
>
> SMTP currently is.
>
>
>>>> Unless we point this out and ask or it, its not going to happen.
>>>
>>> Then ask for it officially, in Bugzilla.
>>
>> Thank you. Where? (Remember, I'm new to SUSE)
>
> For example:
>
> www.opensuse.org --> discover it --> Report a Bug
>
>
> ] Report a Bug
> ]
> ] With our open Bugzilla system, you have direct access to further
> the ] development of openSUSE.
> ]
> ] Submitting Bug Reports – Bug Reporting FAQ
>
> One of the options when filling a bug is to classify the "bug" as a
> feature request.
>
> Read the "Bug Reporting FAQ", feature request is mentioned. There is a
> feature wishlist page, too.
>
>
>
>>>> I say "I'm not in the business" and I mean that. I don't have the
>>>> time
>>>> to do the level of re-engineering for an "Anton's Distribution".
>>>> But if
>>>> the guys at Novell pay attention and decouple many more things like
>>>> this we can all benefit.
>>>
>>> I don't think that will happen. Fortunately (IMO)! >:-)
>>
>> I'm a little alarmed by that kind of statement.
>
> :-)
>
> You say you are new to suse; I'm not. I'm sure you know how other
> distros or Unixes behave better than me, but allow me to say I can
> guess better than you what suse people will feel about your idea
> (about smtp).
>
> - -- Cheers,
> Carlos E. R.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkj/2sQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XsSgCgllUklngWHuevKUmvbdguxaOA
> 0PQAnjYTX3LCGzA0Izr/MsvsqDZZ5P/Z
> =c12u
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

  1. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  2. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  3. 2008-10-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  4. 2008-10-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  5. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Programming Workship: Make
  6. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Autoconf
  7. 2008-10-01 Ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] autoconf
  8. 2008-10-02 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] wget & mirrors
  9. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Is this not the funniest documentation you ever read?
  10. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] wget & mirrors
  11. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] autoconf and gtkmm
  12. 2008-10-02 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  13. 2008-10-02 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  14. 2008-10-02 Ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: autoconf
  15. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  16. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: autoconf
  17. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [danielko.listas-at-gmail.com: Re: gtkmm and autoconf]
  18. 2008-10-03 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  19. 2008-10-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  20. 2008-10-04 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  21. 2008-10-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hackers Beware
  22. 2008-10-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Help make history
  23. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Free Markets and Moral Development
  24. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The World will be changed as you know it
  25. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Real 3d Screens are coming
  26. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cost of Copyright Violation as reported is a lie?
  27. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [linux-elitists] One more thing on DRM...
  28. 2008-10-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Help make history
  29. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  30. 2008-10-08 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] G C T
  31. 2008-10-08 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  32. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  33. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  34. 2008-10-08 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  35. 2008-10-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Toggle Button Bug
  36. 2008-10-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Problems with Apache and SessionX hanging
  37. 2008-10-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Kevin Marks Blog
  38. 2008-10-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  39. 2008-10-12 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  40. 2008-10-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  41. 2008-10-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  42. 2008-10-13 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  43. 2008-10-13 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  44. 2008-10-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  45. 2008-10-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  46. 2008-10-14 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  47. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] openSuSE 11 on a EEEPC 701
  48. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [announce-at-isoc-ny.org: [isoc-ny] NYC COUNCIL TECH COMMITTEE .NYC HEARING FRIDAY 10am]
  49. 2008-10-16 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  50. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  51. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  52. 2008-10-17 Nick Pytel <npytel-at-rattech.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the
  53. 2008-10-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  54. 2008-10-17 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  55. 2008-10-17 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  56. 2008-10-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  57. 2008-10-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [stan-at-etrtechcenter.com: Western Nassau County Tech Lead Lamp Developer]
  58. 2008-10-22 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  59. 2008-10-22 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  60. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  61. 2008-10-23 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and
  62. 2008-10-23 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  63. 2008-10-23 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RE: Mandriva OEM Program
  64. 2008-10-23 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  65. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  66. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  67. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  68. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  69. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [anton.aylward-at-rogers.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  70. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  71. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  72. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  73. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  74. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  75. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  76. 2008-10-24 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting
  77. 2008-10-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  78. 2008-10-24 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim
  79. 2008-10-24 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  80. 2008-10-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  81. 2008-10-24 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  82. 2008-10-24 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  83. 2008-10-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  84. 2008-10-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ice Age NYC
  85. 2008-10-25 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  86. 2008-10-25 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  87. 2008-10-25 Tameek <tameek-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  88. 2008-10-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  89. 2008-10-26 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  90. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  91. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  92. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  93. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  94. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  95. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  96. 2008-10-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [jtg-at-intarcorp.com: Linux Education - New York Linux Scene]
  97. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  98. 2008-10-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Internet Hall of Fame event
  99. 2008-10-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [linux-elitists] Fwd: Need a Linux device driver.]
  100. 2008-10-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google, Books, Fairuse and Copyrights
  101. 2008-10-29 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving MySQL
  102. 2008-10-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  103. 2008-10-31 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  104. 2008-10-31 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  105. 2008-10-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: City Council Calendar - Week of November 2nd]

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