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DATE 2008-10-01

HANGOUT

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MESSAGE
DATE 2008-10-23
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [anton.aylward@rogers.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
From lest-hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Oct 23 19:41:26 2008
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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:41:21 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-mrbrklyn.com
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [anton.aylward-at-rogers.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
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----- Forwarded message from Anton Aylward -----

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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:12:27 -0400
From: Anton Aylward
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To: OS-en
Subject: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
In-Reply-To:

Carlos E. R. said the following on 10/22/2008 10:00 PM:
>

>
> But openSUSE is not a big enterprise distro, it is a "user" distro.

So you re saying that this should not be used as a desktop Linux in an
enterprise?

Can I quote you on that?

>
> But you see, if you "decouple" the requirement or dependency of an smtp
> server by services such as cron, I could not have my preferred method of
> having cron mail me.

Why do you conclude that?
You statement is only accurate in that cron would not be DIRECTLY
mailing you.

If you use a tool such as SWATCH or SEC then any syslog event can mail you.

Both those tools are smart enough to condense multiple lines down to one
'event'.

As it stands, cron can _only_ mail me. It will _always_ mail me.
Most of the time I'm not interested. I only want to know if something
is wrong.

Marcus Ranum, talking about firewalls and IDS, makes the analogy with an
umbrella that notifies you about every raindrop that hits it.

Having tools like cron mail me when everything is OK is like that.
Using tools like SWATCH or SEC lets _me_ decide what I need to be
notified of and how I will be notified (mail, sms, pager, phone, popup,
whatever ...)

Nothing is stopping you from having cron notify you by mail - via syslog.

http://www.estpak.ee/~risto/sec/

This thread began about a dependency. There are other dependencies in
other threads - bluetooth for example.

These is also the issue of the context of the installation. laptops
have been cited.

Finally there is the situation that is very common where the "user" (you
said this was a "user" installation) does not make use of the stem mail
facilities but rather reads mail using a web interface such as gmail, or
uses something like Thunderbird to read the mail at their ISP via POP or
IMAP and uses Thunderbird's own SMTP service to send directly to the
ISP. I would imagine this would be quite common with "home" "users" and
laptop "users". After all, Postfix is an "enterprise" level MTA.
Wietse Venema, its designer and author, intended it as such. While its
easier to set up than sendmail, it is a very powerful and capable tool.
It is most definitely intended for a enterprise level mail hub (I have
been using it for many years as such on my dedicated mail host) and
needs a fair bit of consideration to set up correctly.

But CRON isn't the only wacky dependency.
Have a look at the ldap software you are _required_ to have loaded.
Try uninstalling the openldap client or ldap_pam.
LDAP is bolted in to a whole pile of things like your printer
management, inetd management and http server management. You have to
have this even if you don't use LDAP.

Now LDAP should be an option, like NIS/YP,that controlled by something
like the nsswitch. The whole point of PAM is that its _pluggable_. If
you don't plug that module in its never used.

Once again I point to other implementations that have figured this out
and not been faced with this crazy situation.

Failing to install LDAP shouldn't mean that I can't use YAST to
configure printers, add users or point my laptop and samba server.

Try for yourself. In the software installer do a SEARCH for "ldap" with
only "RPM REQUIRES". We get such things as Thunderbird, Adobe reader,
cURL, and Kgpg. Try some other values to search for and see what other
wacky dependencies you can find.

I mention this because LDAP is most certainly an _enterprise_ tool, not
one would normally install on a laptop. A single user system, a
non-enterprise "user" can get by with the /etc/passwd (&family) file(s).
That's what nsswitch is for. If you comment out the "nis" and "ldap"
from there, then those facilities never get used.

Once again, PAM is pluggable. The SYSLOG model allows you to select
whether you want to know about various events. In a "user" setting many
of these *MANDATORY* things are pure overhead. Simple "users" will read
their mail on the web - that's what the internet is for! Simple users
won't set up Samba server but may connect to them. Simple users won't
set up DNS servers but will connect to them.

Carlos, you seem to want it both ways. You say openSUSE is a "user"
system not an enterprise one, but its set up to force the installation
of enterprise software that is not appropriate to the context a simple
"user".



--
We succeed only as we identify in life, or in war, or in anything else,
a single overriding objective, and make all other considerations bend to
that one objective.
Dwight D. Eisenhower, speech, April 2, 1957
--
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----- End forwarded message -----

--
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium

  1. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  2. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  3. 2008-10-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  4. 2008-10-01 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  5. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Programming Workship: Make
  6. 2008-10-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Autoconf
  7. 2008-10-01 Ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] autoconf
  8. 2008-10-02 email <ray-pub-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] wget & mirrors
  9. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Is this not the funniest documentation you ever read?
  10. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] wget & mirrors
  11. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] autoconf and gtkmm
  12. 2008-10-02 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  13. 2008-10-02 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new hacking attempts
  14. 2008-10-02 Ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: autoconf
  15. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  16. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: autoconf
  17. 2008-10-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [danielko.listas-at-gmail.com: Re: gtkmm and autoconf]
  18. 2008-10-03 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  19. 2008-10-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  20. 2008-10-04 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Radio Show
  21. 2008-10-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Hackers Beware
  22. 2008-10-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Help make history
  23. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Free Markets and Moral Development
  24. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] The World will be changed as you know it
  25. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Real 3d Screens are coming
  26. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Cost of Copyright Violation as reported is a lie?
  27. 2008-10-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [linux-elitists] One more thing on DRM...
  28. 2008-10-07 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Help make history
  29. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  30. 2008-10-08 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] G C T
  31. 2008-10-08 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  32. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  33. 2008-10-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  34. 2008-10-08 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Embperl Abandoned: Next Steps?
  35. 2008-10-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Toggle Button Bug
  36. 2008-10-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Problems with Apache and SessionX hanging
  37. 2008-10-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Kevin Marks Blog
  38. 2008-10-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  39. 2008-10-12 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  40. 2008-10-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  41. 2008-10-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  42. 2008-10-13 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  43. 2008-10-13 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Making a Boot Flash Drive
  44. 2008-10-13 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  45. 2008-10-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  46. 2008-10-14 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  47. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] openSuSE 11 on a EEEPC 701
  48. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [announce-at-isoc-ny.org: [isoc-ny] NYC COUNCIL TECH COMMITTEE .NYC HEARING FRIDAY 10am]
  49. 2008-10-16 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  50. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  51. 2008-10-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  52. 2008-10-17 Nick Pytel <npytel-at-rattech.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the
  53. 2008-10-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  54. 2008-10-17 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest/Social Gathering
  55. 2008-10-17 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest, Social Gathering Sunday un the Succot
  56. 2008-10-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  57. 2008-10-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [stan-at-etrtechcenter.com: Western Nassau County Tech Lead Lamp Developer]
  58. 2008-10-22 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  59. 2008-10-22 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Getting Rid of Mail servers on my Laptop
  60. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  61. 2008-10-23 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and
  62. 2008-10-23 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  63. 2008-10-23 From: "mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com" <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] RE: Mandriva OEM Program
  64. 2008-10-23 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  65. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  66. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  67. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  68. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  69. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [anton.aylward-at-rogers.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  70. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  71. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  72. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  73. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  74. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  75. 2008-10-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop]
  76. 2008-10-24 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: Re: [opensuse] Getting
  77. 2008-10-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  78. 2008-10-24 Mark Simko <msimko-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim
  79. 2008-10-24 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  80. 2008-10-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [opensuse] Getting Rid of postfix and exim on my laptop
  81. 2008-10-24 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  82. 2008-10-24 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  83. 2008-10-24 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  84. 2008-10-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ice Age NYC
  85. 2008-10-25 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  86. 2008-10-25 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  87. 2008-10-25 Tameek <tameek-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  88. 2008-10-26 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  89. 2008-10-26 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  90. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  91. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  92. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  93. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  94. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  95. 2008-10-26 From: "Ronny Abraham" <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  96. 2008-10-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [jtg-at-intarcorp.com: Linux Education - New York Linux Scene]
  97. 2008-10-26 From: "Joshua Zeidner" <jjzeidner-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] GNU/Android Linux (Google) phones
  98. 2008-10-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Internet Hall of Fame event
  99. 2008-10-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [linux-elitists] Fwd: Need a Linux device driver.]
  100. 2008-10-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Google, Books, Fairuse and Copyrights
  101. 2008-10-29 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Moving MySQL
  102. 2008-10-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  103. 2008-10-31 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  104. 2008-10-31 From: "Michael L. Richardson" <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new members
  105. 2008-10-31 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [legcalendar-at-council.nyc.ny.us: City Council Calendar - Week of November 2nd]

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