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DATE 2014-08-01

HANGOUT

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Key: id Value: 542426

Key: archive Value: 2014-08-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2014-08-21
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [eblake@redhat.com: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Aug 21 11:59:18 2014
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 11:59:16 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
To: NYLXS
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [eblake-at-redhat.com: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical
timestamps]
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shared


----- Forwarded message from Eric Blake -----

Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 09:32:42 -0600
From: Eric Blake
To: bug-make-at-gnu.org, Autoconf
Subject: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical timestamps
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/24.7.0

Make folks:
You may want to check out http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=857 and
add comments and/or change GNU make behavior accordingly. There, the
argument is made that HP-UX make behavior is nicer than GNU's current
behavior when two files have identical timestamps: HP-UX considers the
file as out-of-date, while GNU make considers it up-to-date. A strict
reading of POSIX can argue that GNU's behavior was required, but this
reading has been called into question.

GNU's behavior is an optimization that avoids needless churn on file
systems with course timestamps (well, FAT still exists, but these days,
MOST file systems have sub-second resolution, so it is harder to get
files with identical timestamps without actually touch'ing them that
way) - but it risks leaving a tree in an incomplete state. HP-UX
behavior guarantees the rules are run, even if they were not strictly
necessary, but has the nice property that the tree is never left in an
incomplete state due to unfortunate timing on a file system with course
timestamps.

The POSIX recommendation was therefore that GNU should change its
behavior to act like HP-UX, and consider identical timestamps as
out-of-date, because the standard will be fixed to allow HP-UX behavior.

Autoconf folks:
The section of the autoconf manual that discusses this should probably
be modernized, particularly if changes to POSIX and/or GNU make result
from this discussion.
https://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/manual/autoconf.html#Timestamps-and-Make

--
Eric Blake eblake redhat com +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org




_______________________________________________
Autoconf mailing list
Autoconf-at-gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/autoconf


----- End forwarded message -----

  1. 2014-08-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  2. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  3. 2014-08-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  4. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  5. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weeeeeee!!!
  6. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  7. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  8. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Programming
  9. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  10. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  11. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  12. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  13. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  14. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  15. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Fwd: Coding Tutor
  16. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  17. 2014-08-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  18. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  19. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  20. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  21. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  22. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  23. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  24. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  25. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  26. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  27. 2014-08-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  28. 2014-08-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Robin Williams Died
  29. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  30. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Training Scholarships
  31. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] artificial music
  32. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  34. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle
  39. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle - Optimum Tech Support to
  40. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [richter-at-ecos.de: ANNOUNCE: Embperl 2.5.0]
  41. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  42. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  43. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  44. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  45. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  46. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fare beaters united!
  47. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  48. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  49. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  50. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  51. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Job Inquiries
  52. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  53. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  54. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of the Past | Pharmacist
  55. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of
  56. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  57. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com>
  58. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  59. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  60. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] opeldap ebook
  61. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Books to learn LDAP services
  62. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Best States to Move to the economy
  63. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [eblake-at-redhat.com: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical
  64. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] All your futures are mine
  65. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [isoc-ny] U.S. -at-CopyrightOffice issues draft of 3rd edition
  66. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] old coders
  67. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works - College Bound
  68. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] more college choices
  69. 2014-08-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  70. 2014-08-25 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  71. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  72. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  73. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  74. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  75. 2014-08-25 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  76. 2014-08-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  77. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  78. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [lisa-at-gatestaffing.com: [php-337] [JOB] PHP
  79. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Graduate School Prerequesits
  80. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  81. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  82. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] BS versus MS cont...
  83. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  84. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: Tomorrow: You and 150 other Ruby developers are
  85. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  86. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nyc-on-rails] NYC Talent Hack
  87. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  88. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Tonight
  89. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  90. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  91. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  92. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  93. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  94. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  95. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  96. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  97. 2014-08-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Pointer Reviews
  98. 2014-08-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  99. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  100. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Math and Computer Sciences
  101. 2014-08-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Degrees to get back to work after 50...

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