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DATE 2014-08-01

HANGOUT

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Key: id Value: 542444

Key: archive Value: 2014-08-01

MESSAGE
DATE 2014-08-27
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Wed Aug 27 00:19:32 2014
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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 00:20:10 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
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Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
References: <20100224002730.GA13535-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com> <7660543.mKIdhjXBer-at-trelane> <53F993EC.4030203-at-mrbrklyn.com> <2385230.m2hBBhVfWY-at-trelane>
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On 08/24/2014 07:42 AM, Chris Knadle wrote:
> On Sunday, August 24, 2014 03:27:40 Ruben Safir wrote:
>> On 08/23/2014 01:58 PM, Chris Knadle wrote:
>>> Hey, Ruben.
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 22, 2014 11:37:34 Ruben Safir wrote:
>>>> right
>>>
>>> Heh. What are you referring to in the above? This thread is 4.5 /years/
>>> old and after reading the full message I can't tell what you're trying to
>>> say about it now. ;-) Did you send this accidentally?
>>>
>>> -- Chris
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Chris Knadle
>>> Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us
>>
>> No, what I am saying that the responses to go and program it yourself or
>> go use an ancient desktop are inappropriate. Furthermore, it isn't like
>> all the development is being done by unpaid professionals. Most of it
>> is done through sponsorships and paid work.
>
> That's certainly more true these days than it used to be. In the mid-to-late
> 90's when GNU and the Linux system was still relatively new it was more common
> for developers to have a separate job and be coding free software on the side
> such that the latter was more of "a labor of love". However for the most part
> the effort required today to contribute significantly to projects is such that
> it generally needs more coordination of many people over a sustained time, and
> getting those needed man years in an unpaid way is difficult today where costs
> of living are steadily going up, but salaries are flat or in some industries
> -- such as health care -- even repeatedly going down.
>
>> The problem is that the
>> design just sucks from the ground up. The assumptions made about usage
>> and design are not for the convenience and security of the end user.
>> They are mostly motivated by a commercial request or desire. This is
>> not necessary bad but the outcomes need to be monitored.
>
> At least when it comes to the Linux kernel itself, I think security is
> actually taken seriously, and interestingly enough there are still a lot of
> contributions to the kernel that are outside of corporate influence. When it
> comes to the next layer of integration, distributions generally have package
> maintainers and security teams that watch for security issues that make up
> pieces of the system, and there are regular security fixes and changes
> upstream to deal with that. This is certainly not perfect, as we see some
> individual instances of the "upstream" project being a bit "asleep at the
> wheel" in terms of discovering/reporting/fixing security issues.
>
> "Usage and design" is difficult to discuss broadly. Some of that was
> originally dictated by the POSIX spec from Unix, but once we get to the GUI
> layer the focus changes to one of "the user experience". The oddity here is
> that there can be some disconnects between "what's good for the user" and what
> the developers think of as a good direction for what users need and will like,
> and acceptance of negative feedback from users and acting on it correctly is
> difficult.
>
> However even with all of this there's been a shift to "cloud computing" such
> that much of the data and interfaces are on websites such that our data as
> well as the GUIs we use are increasingly not residing on our Desktop anymore,
> and instead residing on corporate fiefdoms (Facebook, GMail, etc) that we can
> have virtually no influence on in terms of their programming or design, nor
> even know how they work or in what ways our own data is used by them.
>
>> Currently, leading desktop and user interfaces all across the digital
>> world and failing the most basic standards of usability and digital
>> ownership. Sending something to facebook, that is one click or swipe.
>> Sending something to your home computer...that is NOT HAPPENING. This
>> is bad.
>
> It is. The critical issue with this is that the control the user's data is no
> longer in the user's hands.
>
>> The new devices and desktops are entirely too complicated,,
>> tied down and prevent access to your data. People can't wait to get
>> shit on the cloud because they can't move it around. They can't make
>> simple calls, transfer files, see their hard drive, download their music
>> and movie files, play links in their browsers, etc etc etc.
>>
>> Interfaces are confusing as hell, and nobody knows wtf is going on as
>> long as they can get their candy crush...
>>
>> Really, Candy Crush? Is that not a gnome-games from 1998 repackaged
>> into a 500 million dollar company?
>>
>>
>> BTW - I'm trying to go back to graduate School for Comp/Sci.
>
> That's terrific. Having done this myself recently with Engineering I'll
> mention that reviving one's past Calculus knowledge is nontrivial. I'm not
> sure why but I found that the "stack" of knowledge needed to get through
> college went about 75% unused such that it went stale in my mind, so it was
> quite a struggle to "refresh" my memory when I went back to graduate school.
> Perseverance won out even though my Calculus knowledge never fully returned to
> its past glory -- but I was able to enjoy the struggle and that helped a lot.
>
>> I'm Pharmacy burned out.
>
> The health care field is really shaken up right now so that fits in with what
> I'm hearing going on from both nurses and doctors too. There are a lot of
> people that want to leave the medical field right now.
>
>> Actually, I have three choices.
>>
>> A) LIU Comp/Sci program is 36 credits for an MS
>>
>> B) City Tech CUNY has a heavy math intensive Applied
>> Mathmatics/Information Systems that includes:
>
>
> [...]
>> This is intense and is all but starting school from scratch. I would
>> need access to student loans for 4 year worth of living....
>
> I found that the cost of living was quite a bit more expensive than the
> college courses and books were. What's most difficult about this situation is
> that if one is working in a career job it's possible (in some cases -- getting
> more difficult) to get a corporation to pay for schooling, but only if the
> schooling is in the same field. :-/ This makes switching fields difficult
> and expensive. On the flip-side I think it's important to be able to have
> passion for what one does, so switching fields may be the right thing in the
> long term, but the combination of economic and academic pressures are
> significant in the short term and the loans will require repayment over the
> long term too.
>
> [...]

When I went for my {hD, getting the Math ramped up was the single
hardest thing for me to do. I never found math hard, until then. I
found it challenging and requiring effort, but never out of reach. I
retook calc II after realizing that there was no way I was going to
understand differential equations without a severe tone up. And even
taking calc II the second time was mind numbingly difficult.

However, I disagree that one doesn't use their math even in the mundane
coding assignments. People with the math background have a foot up on
problem solving.... they really do and I'm suffering a knowledge gap
with kids who have had a full comp/sci BS with the math and logic
circuits backgroudn etc.

Ruben

>> The undergraduate programs actually look better except for the need to
>> remain in school for 3 years almost, and paying for it. The MS is
>> designed more for adults to do. 36 credits and your out.
>>
>> Anyway, I need two letters of recommendation, and any input on loans or
>> scholarships will be much beloved.
>
> For grad school you'll also need to take the GRE [Graduate Record Exam]. For
> technical fields the main score to concern yourself with is the math portion
> of the test. The math required for that is mostly Algebra and some
> Trigonometry -- not terribly difficult as math goes -- but the time constraint
> on the test is significant. Make sure to get the GRE study software and take
> a few example tests before taking the GRE.
>
> What I found in doing that was that I could always solve the problems but I'd
> repeatedly run out of time and thus miss questions and loose points. The best
> scores I was able to achieve were by making a quick evaluation of each
> question and knowing whether I could solve the problem /within two minutes/
> and skipping the question if it was going to take longer than that. This
> itself is a risk because the computerized test is /adaptive/ meaning if you
> skip a question you not only loose those points but are then given easier
> questions afterwards that are worth less.
>
> Concerning loans, generally what the loan advisement will get you is to apply
> for a Stafford loan -- but don't stop there -- look for grants, and in rare
> cases it might be possible to get a full fellowship (which would fully pay for
> school but not living expenses). Most grants are positioned at undergrads so
> this isn't easy either, but it's worth putting in some time and effort to
> study this and work on it to try to ease the financial part of the equation as
> much as possible.
>
> -- Chris
>
> --
>
> Chris Knadle
> Chris.Knadle-at-coredump.us
> _______________________________________________
> nylug-talk mailing list
> nylug-talk-at-nylug.org
> http://mail.nylug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk
>
> .
>

  1. 2014-08-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  2. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  3. 2014-08-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  4. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  5. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weeeeeee!!!
  6. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  7. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  8. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Programming
  9. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  10. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  11. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  12. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  13. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  14. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  15. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Fwd: Coding Tutor
  16. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  17. 2014-08-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  18. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  19. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  20. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  21. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  22. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  23. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  24. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  25. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  26. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  27. 2014-08-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  28. 2014-08-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Robin Williams Died
  29. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  30. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Training Scholarships
  31. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] artificial music
  32. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  34. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle
  39. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle - Optimum Tech Support to
  40. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [richter-at-ecos.de: ANNOUNCE: Embperl 2.5.0]
  41. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  42. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  43. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  44. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  45. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  46. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fare beaters united!
  47. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  48. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  49. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  50. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  51. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Job Inquiries
  52. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  53. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  54. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of the Past | Pharmacist
  55. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of
  56. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  57. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com>
  58. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  59. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  60. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] opeldap ebook
  61. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Books to learn LDAP services
  62. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Best States to Move to the economy
  63. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [eblake-at-redhat.com: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical
  64. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] All your futures are mine
  65. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [isoc-ny] U.S. -at-CopyrightOffice issues draft of 3rd edition
  66. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] old coders
  67. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works - College Bound
  68. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] more college choices
  69. 2014-08-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  70. 2014-08-25 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  71. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  72. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  73. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  74. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  75. 2014-08-25 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  76. 2014-08-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  77. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  78. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [lisa-at-gatestaffing.com: [php-337] [JOB] PHP
  79. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Graduate School Prerequesits
  80. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  81. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  82. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] BS versus MS cont...
  83. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  84. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: Tomorrow: You and 150 other Ruby developers are
  85. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  86. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nyc-on-rails] NYC Talent Hack
  87. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  88. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Tonight
  89. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  90. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  91. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  92. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  93. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  94. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  95. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  96. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  97. 2014-08-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Pointer Reviews
  98. 2014-08-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  99. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  100. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Math and Computer Sciences
  101. 2014-08-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Degrees to get back to work after 50...

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