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DATE 2014-08-01

HANGOUT

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Key: archive Value: 2014-08-01

Key: id Value: 542464

MESSAGE
DATE 2014-08-31
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Degrees to get back to work after 50...
From owner-hangout-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Sun Aug 31 06:17:11 2014
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 06:17:09 -0400
From: Ruben Safir
To: hangout-at-nylxs.com
Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Degrees to get back to work after 50...
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On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 02:57:11AM -0400, Brian Gupta wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 02:17:28PM -0400, Bryan J Smith wrote:
> >> From: Carl Friedberg
> >>
> >> > I've been away from school too long, but calculus is something you need to
> >> > master if you want to be teaching a highly technical subject. If what you
> >> > want is a teaching position where the topic is Business aspects of managing
> >> > tech development, you could probably do OK without calculus. You still need
> >> > a grounding in math, including statistics and probability.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Understand I personally believe IT does _not_ require a college degree. I
> >> have stood "toe-to-toe" with HR/procurement departments and argued why a
> >> very qualified individual should be hired. It upsets me to no end when
> >> snotty HR/procurement departments -- most of them with BAs -- get this "oh,
> >> we have college degrees, so we require them too" -- attitude.
> >>
> >
> >
> > At my age, nobody is going to even look without a degree.
>
> I've been thinking about it, and I feel the best way to get approached
> for work in tech, is to provide meaningful code contribution to an open
> source project that is commercially important, and has a scarcity of talent.


This is exactly what Avi Flombaum does at the Flatiron School. More
important than any education, IMO, and I've only observed them a little
bit and been there once. But from what they write, they are not selling
a huge heapingful of technical knowledge. Infact, they guarantee you to
be a 12 week wonder.

QUOTE:::

Basics //
Become a Production-Ready Developer

The Ruby program is a 12 week, full time, intensive program, designed
give you the equivalent skillset and experience of an entry-level Ruby
developer. Because we focus heavily on collaboration, you are required
to be on campus Monday Thru Friday, 9AM-6PM throughout the duration of
the program. There is certainly a fair amount of work to be done beyond
those hours (many students choose to stay late and come in on weekends),
but that???s the minimum.

Prior to arriving to campus, you???ll also complete 4 weeks (80-120 hours
in total) of prework assignments at home. This, plus the following 12
weeks of on-campus learning, amounts to a 16 week commitment.

The cost for the semester is $12,000. However, if you accept a position
through our job placement program, we will refund $4,000 of your
tuition. Grants and scholarships are also available for students from
underrepresented groups like women and minorities.
We Teach What We Love
We ??? Ruby so you'll be spending a lot of time in the Ruby ecosystem. The
goal is to make you a full-stack developer, so we'll also teach you the
other required technologies, buzz-words, and acronyms.

ENDQUOTE

What they are really selling is a preselection process of getting the
most politically happy and most likely to succeed students:


QUOTE::


The Students //
Here???s what we look for in future developers:

Culture

Learning is a team sport. As such, we value diversity in background
and perspective. We accept about ***10% of people who apply **** into the
program. While we could probably admit 30 investment bankers who would
make awesome developers, that would make for a much less interesting
group dynamic. Our student backgrounds have ranged from professional
poker players, Major League Baseball scouts and entrepreneurs,
designers, lawyers and, yes, investment bankers.
Aptitude

Our students are smart. Real smart. Sure, we???ve got the Oxford,
Harvard, etc. grads. That being said, we see code as a form of
expression and value creativity above all else. Throughout our first two
Ruby semesters, we realized that over 80% of our students have a
background in photography, design, writing, or music. Go figure.
Ultimately, students learn more from each other than from lectures.
Smart students means great teachers.
Passion

There are lots of great reasons to learn how to code. You can get an
awesome job at a sexy tech startup! Or launch an app and be the next
Mark Zuckerberg! While those are great goals, if that???s what you???re
looking for, this program is not for you. We approach coding as a
lifelong craft, rather than a means to an end. Our students are
passionate about being great developers and writing code that impacts
people. As a recent Ruby alum told us in week 7, ???I dream in Ruby.???

::ENDQUOTE

See that quote that they are only accepting about 10% of the people that
apply? And those are people with a spare 12 grand to toss around.

But then, from the start they are grooming these kids, and they are
KIDS, to eat drink and think like a young dotcom maven. These guys have
their individual profiles up and every profile has links to every social
media available. their profiles look like CLICK modeling company
profiles:

http://students.flatironschool.com/

Look at these guys! they are having so much fun it looks like a
Bennington Comerical

and EVERY profile has links to github

Here is my favorite from the 2004 class. I very very nice Jewish girl
(sorry Hannah).

http://students.flatironschool.com/students/shiralazarus.html

QUOTE::

Shira Lazarus

"If hell is other people then purgatory is airports" -- Neil Gaiman.

About
Go To Top
Biography

I grew up and went to college in New York City. I studied Analytical
Philosophy at Columbia University and I now live in Brooklyn, New York.
Education

Columbia University

Work
Sulia Inc

The greatest social network you've never heard of.
Coder Cred


::ENDQUOTE

And here is her link to github:

https://github.com/SML4EVA

and the other social media points are also listed there.



And this is the schools link.
https://github.com/login?return_to=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Forganizations%2Fflatiron-school


I was amazed when I went there. They have a regimentation I haven't
seen since I used to see the Merril Lynch brokers in training file out
of 1 Liberty Plaza in the 1970's, all in their exact same 3 peice suits,
ties and pattent leather shows. These guys are all cackie jeans,
button bown shirts, sockeless, with either sandle and sneakers wearing
happy faces, making a change in the world through code and software (and
beer and piazza).

And the school apears to be connected to venture capital

I've been an idiot!! I've been convinced that a depth of knwoledge and
experience would count before corperate culture.

> Ideally these contributions would be to projects that host on Github, and job
> seekers would list their contact info on Github.
>
> Summarized, recruiters have figured out enough to trawl github for
> talent. If you have contributed publically, hiring managers can get a better
> sense of what you are capable of, and put a much lower emphasis on
> traditional metrics like education/gpa, etc. I'll add that real work experience
> can bridge that gap too, but in your situation you've got a bit of chicken and
> the egg situation, since your job experience isn't IT.
>
> Going back to the degree. I'll say I am a bit hesitant to encourage
> people to seek undergrad degrees much later than their mid-late 20s.
> Employers are generally willing to give newly minted engineers a pass
> when it comes to experience if they are new graduates, but I don't feel that
> necessarily extends to folks changing careers later in life. After a
> certain point
> the experience section of the resume becomes the most important.
>
> Remember the fact that the richest man on earth, who has worked
> his entire life in tech, does not have a college degree. (Let alone a
> degree in CS).
>


That is not a measure...


--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013


----- End forwarded message -----

  1. 2014-08-03 Contrarian <adrba-at-nyct.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  2. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  3. 2014-08-04 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  4. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I was really really dumb
  5. 2014-08-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Weeeeeee!!!
  6. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  7. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Email Survalience
  8. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Programming
  9. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  10. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  11. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  12. 2014-08-05 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  13. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Classes
  14. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  15. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Fwd: Coding Tutor
  16. 2014-08-05 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  17. 2014-08-05 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  18. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  19. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  20. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  21. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] QUIZ Time!!
  22. 2014-08-06 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  23. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie Night
  24. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  25. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] monkey copyright
  26. 2014-08-07 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  27. 2014-08-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Coding Tutor
  28. 2014-08-11 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Robin Williams Died
  29. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  30. 2014-08-12 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Training Scholarships
  31. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] artificial music
  32. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  33. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  34. 2014-08-14 eminker-at-gmail.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  35. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  36. 2014-08-14 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  37. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  38. 2014-08-16 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle
  39. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] networking puzzle - Optimum Tech Support to
  40. 2014-08-17 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [richter-at-ecos.de: ANNOUNCE: Embperl 2.5.0]
  41. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  42. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  43. 2014-08-18 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Meeting
  44. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  45. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  46. 2014-08-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] fare beaters united!
  47. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  48. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  49. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  50. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Linux Jobs
  51. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Job Inquiries
  52. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  53. 2014-08-19 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  54. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of the Past | Pharmacist
  55. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: Paper Rxs Quickly Becoming a Thing of
  56. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] End of my pharmacy career?
  57. 2014-08-19 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com>
  58. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  59. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Movie of the Week
  60. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] opeldap ebook
  61. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Books to learn LDAP services
  62. 2014-08-20 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Best States to Move to the economy
  63. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [eblake-at-redhat.com: POSIX ruling on up-to-date vs. identical
  64. 2014-08-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] All your futures are mine
  65. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [isoc-ny] U.S. -at-CopyrightOffice issues draft of 3rd edition
  66. 2014-08-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] old coders
  67. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works - College Bound
  68. 2014-08-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] more college choices
  69. 2014-08-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  70. 2014-08-25 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  71. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  72. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  73. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  74. 2014-08-25 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  75. 2014-08-25 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  76. 2014-08-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  77. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Shoshana's wedding
  78. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com: [lisa-at-gatestaffing.com: [php-337] [JOB] PHP
  79. 2014-08-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Graduate School Prerequesits
  80. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  81. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] I'd be happy to pay of a GNU Desktop that works
  82. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] BS versus MS cont...
  83. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  84. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: Tomorrow: You and 150 other Ruby developers are
  85. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [info-at-meetup.com: New comment in Jos?? Valim presents Elixir!]
  86. 2014-08-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Fwd: [nyc-on-rails] NYC Talent Hack
  87. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  88. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Meeting Tonight
  89. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  90. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  91. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] the Go Language
  92. 2014-08-28 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  93. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  94. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] New GLP firewall project
  95. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  96. 2014-08-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  97. 2014-08-29 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] C Pointer Reviews
  98. 2014-08-29 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  99. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Ruby groups
  100. 2014-08-30 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Math and Computer Sciences
  101. 2014-08-31 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Degrees to get back to work after 50...

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