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DATE 2015-02-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2015-02-26
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn@panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
From owner-learn-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 26 07:09:05 2015
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From: Ruben Safir
To: learn-at-nylxs.com
Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
database design]
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----- Forwarded message from Ruben Safir -----

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From: Ruben Safir
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Subject: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in database design
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Subject: Re: Role of functional dependencies in database design
From: compdb-at-hotmail.com
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Xref: panix comp.databases.theory:75563

On Thursday, February 12, 2015 at 8:02:19 AM UTC-8, Nicola wrote:

> So, the question is: what is the role of FDs (and possibly other types of=
dependencies) in database design?

We determine predicates that describe application situations. Basic predica=
tes correspond to base tables. A FD holds when a certain constraint predica=
te built from a table predicate holds. (A JD corresponds to being able to w=
rite a table predicate as a conjunction of others. A FD corresponds to a ce=
rtain JD.)

> In general, I don't think that it is possible for them to inform the desi=
gn activity since the early stages or that they should be used as the main =
design tool.

As soon as you have a predicate you can determine FDs.

> > Erwin wrote:
> >There you have it. When people tell you "there can only be one can=20
> >opener on any given desert island", then what do you see ?
> >
> >A table {desert island, can opener} with (a.o.) a key "desert island",=
=20
> >or
> >A relation schema of whatever set of attributes in which you must add=20
> >the FD desert island -> can opener ? Where this then tells you "the=20
> >identity of a desert island is a determinant factor to the identity of=
=20
> >the can opener that is on it" or "the relation over {desert island, can=
=20
> >opener} is a function from desert island to can opener" ?

You don't need keys or entities, you just need predicates and determinants.

"If desert island I has opener Oa and desert island I has opener Ob then Oa=
=3D Ob."

Ergo I -> O in "desert island I has opener O".

> At an early stage, you probably cannot say: it might also be that desert =
island and can opener should be represented as two relation schemas (for w=
hich we have identified no attributes yet) related through a one-one or one=
-many relationship. My point here is simply that FDs are not invented, they=
are discovered.

First *say something* then you can find the FDs. There is no "one-one or o=
ne-many relationship" until then. First comes *a particular* relationship i=
e predicate then come parameters/attributes and then arities and other cons=
traints.

> >> FDs are a special type of first-order formulas. I can imagine defining=
an English-like syntax for them.
>=20
> (Not that it would necessarily be a good idea, I should add.)
>=20
> >Hmmmmmmmm.

FD F1,... -> T holds in predicate R(F1,...,T,...) when (for all situations)=
:

FORALL F1,...,Ta,...,Tb,...
R(F1,...,Ta,...) AND R(F1,...,Tb,...)
=3D> Ta =3D Tb

Notice that the determinant variables are unchanged between atoms, that the=
re are two determined variables for one value, and that the other variables=
are don't-cares.

We can describe this pattern. Eg an FD holds "when each satisfying determin=
ant subtuple has just one determined value". But all we have to do is *use*=
it with each predicate.

> given two lecturers L1 and L2 and a time T
> when L1 is teaching at time T and L2 is teaching at time T
> then L1 and L2 are in different rooms

FORALL L1,L2,T,R1,R2
teaches(L1,T,R1) AND teaches(L2,T,R2) =3D> R1 <> R2

> (this is absolutely off the top of my head: don't take it as a serious at=
tempt).

No FD.

For "then it was the same room", T -> R. For "then it was the same lecturer=
", T -> L.

> >And besides, avoiding redundancy was only a relevant topic in database=
=20
> >design as long as there were no feasible ways to control the=20
> >redundancies, e.g. via ASSERTIONs. Those days are gone.

But predicates, queries and updates are simpler in 5NF, ie when the only JD=
s are implied by the CKs.

philip
-- end of forwarded message --

----- End forwarded message -----

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  116. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  117. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  118. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  119. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  120. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  121. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  122. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  123. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  124. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  125. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  126. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Role of functional dependencies in
  127. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  128. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  129. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  130. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  131. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] a hate this question
  132. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Allorithms Midterm
  133. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Read the FUCKING NOTES
  134. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Allgorithm Examination
  135. 2015-02-28 Ruben <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Linked List Test Question
  136. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Read the FUCKING NOTES
  137. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [prmarino1-at-gmail.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Read the FUCKING NOTES

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