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DATE 2015-02-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2015-02-26
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn@panix.com: (fwd) Role of functional dependencies in
From owner-learn-outgoing-at-mrbrklyn.com Thu Feb 26 07:10:52 2015
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 07:10:51 -0500
From: Ruben Safir
To: learn-at-nylxs.com
Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Role of functional dependencies in
database design]
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----- Forwarded message from Ruben Safir -----

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 07:08:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Ruben Safir
To: mrbrklyn-at-panix.com
Subject: (fwd) Role of functional dependencies in database design
User-Agent: tin/2.2.1-20140504 ("Tober an Righ") (UNIX) (NetBSD/6.1.5 (i386))

-- forwarded message --
Path: reader1.panix.com!panix!goblin3!goblin.stu.neva.ru!news.netfront.net!nvitacolonna
From: Nicola
Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory
Subject: Role of functional dependencies in database design
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 17:02:14 +0100
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Xref: panix comp.databases.theory:75523

I hope you won't mind if I start a new thread for the subject. The other
thread has got quite long and somewhat off-topic.

So, the question is: what is the role of FDs (and possibly other types
of dependencies) in database design? My personal take:

In general, I don't think that it is possible for them to inform the
design activity since the early stages or that they should be used as
the main design tool. I do think, however, that when a system is
understood sufficiently well (e.g., by means of a conceptual design),
they offer an aid (are my schemas well-designed according to certain
criteria?) and insight (allowing us to possibly find alternative ways to
design a database, for example).

>> Nicola wrote:
>> FDs do not come out of void, they follow from your requirements. They
>> are just a formal version of a very special (and relatively simple)
>> type
>> of requirement. I don't arbitrarily decide to assume that {desert
>> island} -> {can opener}, unless you tell me that there cannot be two
>> can
>> openers in the same desert island, in the world of desert islands you
>> are interested in.

> Erwin wrote:
>There you have it. When people tell you "there can only be one can
>opener on any given desert island", then what do you see ?
>
>A table {desert island, can opener} with (a.o.) a key "desert island",
>or
>A relation schema of whatever set of attributes in which you must add
>the FD desert island -> can opener ? Where this then tells you "the
>identity of a desert island is a determinant factor to the identity of
>the can opener that is on it" or "the relation over {desert island, can
>opener} is a function from desert island to can opener" ?

At an early stage, you probably cannot say: it might also be that desert
island and can opener should be represented as two relation schemas (for
which we have identified no attributes yet) related through a one-one or
one-many relationship. My point here is simply that FDs are not
invented, they are discovered.

>> FDs are a special type of first-order formulas. I can imagine >>
defining
>> an English-like syntax for them.

(Not that it would necessarily be a good idea, I should add.)

>Hmmmmmmmm.
>
>"The projection on {desert island, can opener} of the join of all
>tables in the database, represents a function from desert island to can
>opener."

Well no, like this certainly no :) Maybe something along these lines
(paraphrasing the given-when-then constructs existing in some testing
tools):

given two lecturers L1 and L2 and a time T
when L1 is teaching at time T and L2 is teaching at time T
then L1 and L2 are in different rooms

(this is absolutely off the top of my head: don't take it as a serious
attempt).

>And besides, avoiding redundancy was only a relevant topic in database
>design as long as there were no feasible ways to control the
>redundancies, e.g. via ASSERTIONs. Those days are gone.

Could you provide a small example?

Nicola

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news-at-netfront.net ---
-- end of forwarded message --

----- End forwarded message -----

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  18. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Compus Meeting
  19. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Compus Meeting
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  23. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] [announce-at-lists.isoc-ny.org: [isoc-ny] Two NYC
  24. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] (fwd) Operating System Design
  25. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] (fwd) Operating System Design
  26. 2015-02-04 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] (fwd) Operating System Design
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  90. 2015-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  91. 2015-02-23 Keisha Sylvester <keisha.sylvester-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  92. 2015-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  93. 2015-02-23 Ruben <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  94. 2015-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] scheduler resources
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  96. 2015-02-23 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Study Schedule for Tuesday
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  100. 2015-02-24 From: "keisha.sylvester" <keisha.sylvester-at-my.liu.edu> RE: Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
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  103. 2015-02-24 Maneesh Kongara <maneeshkongara-at-gmail.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  104. 2015-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  105. 2015-02-24 Keisha Sylvester <keisha.sylvester-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Study anyone??
  106. 2015-02-24 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Study anyone??
  107. 2015-02-25 Ruben <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  108. 2015-02-25 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  109. 2015-02-25 Keisha Sylvester <keisha.sylvester-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  110. 2015-02-26 Ruben <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Binary tree Excersize
  111. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Campus
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  113. 2015-02-26 Ruben <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Re: Fwd: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Bios
  114. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  115. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  116. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  117. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  118. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  119. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  120. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  121. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  122. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  123. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  124. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  125. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: Role of functional dependencies in
  126. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Role of functional dependencies in
  127. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  128. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  129. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  130. 2015-02-26 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [mrbrklyn-at-panix.com: (fwd) Re: [LIU Comp Sci] Need tutoring on
  131. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] a hate this question
  132. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Allorithms Midterm
  133. 2015-02-27 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Read the FUCKING NOTES
  134. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Allgorithm Examination
  135. 2015-02-28 Ruben <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Linked List Test Question
  136. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Read the FUCKING NOTES
  137. 2015-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [LIU Comp Sci] [prmarino1-at-gmail.com: Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Read the FUCKING NOTES

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