|FROM ||Rick Moen
|SUBJECT ||Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
|From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Dec 19 06:07:12 2016
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 03:07:05 -0800
From: Rick Moen
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Subject: Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
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Quoting mayer ilovitz (pmamayeri-at-gmail.com):
> So, the real question & discussion topic is what distros (or at
> least versions of distros) have NOT gone over to the Dark Side of
> Init Systems ? I've been running Mint for years (still on 17.1) and
> trying to
> figure what to upgrade to as I've heard 18.x is now fully SystemD'd :-(
The real answer to that is actually a little subtle. The list starts
with distros, and variant installations of distros, that default to
(and continue to use over time) one or more non-syatem init system.
A decent list of those is here:
Note that the list includes (as I suggested) _variant_ entries such as
"Arch OpenRC", a totally stable and robust variant strain of Arch Linux
despite the fact that Arch Linux as a whole hews to a strict systemd
orthodoxy, e.g. on its otherwise splendid wiki.
Along the same lines, note entries for Gentoo and Funtoo in
That is not, however, the end of the story, because of another wrinkle
entirely. Not long after the Debian -> Devuan fork over the systemd
issue, I started playing with Debian 8 'Jessie' in a VM and found myself
strongly questioning a too-easily-accepted bit of orthodoxy: that Debian
was now systemd-dependent. I had been assured by Devuan proponents and
others that Debian was no longer feasible without systemd, but decided
an gram of empirical data is worth a kilogram of rhetoric, so checked
for myself, and lo! The story is (to date) really entirely untrue, as
long as you don't need _all_ of GNOME, MATE, Cinnamon, or, and Razor-qt,
and aren't in love with (GNOME's) network-manager app.
Page shows that it's _extremely_ practical to run Debian 8 'Jessie' with
your choice of: OpenRC, sysvinit, upstart, runit, or nosh.
...and that's without resort to third-party repositories, or locally
built packages, or anything complex.
So, the claim that current Debian is systemd-captive is basically false.
Running it with any of five other inits (unless you're in love with
certain DEs) is dead-easy.
For my own use on my next-generation Debian-based Internet server, I'm
experimenting with not only shucking systemd (and libsystemd0), but also
udev, D-Bus, upower, udisks2, policykit-1, and pretty much every bit of
Freedesktop.org bloatware that's plagued the Linux community for the
What I really do not know is whether it's relatively easy to free other
allegedly systemd-captive distributions through obvious local-sysadmin
package operations such as I describe in my article for Debian 8. Might
be; might be not. You tell me!
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