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DATE 2016-12-01

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Key: archive Value: 2016-12-01

Key: id Value: 545566

MESSAGE
DATE 2016-12-19
FROM mayer ilovitz
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the issues with SystemD: why are they doing
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Dec 19 11:47:42 2016
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To: NYLXS Discussions List
References:
From: mayer ilovitz
Message-ID: <58580F24.201-at-gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 11:47:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the issues with SystemD: why are they doing
this ? ( getting away from the classic Unix principles in favor of the
opposite ).
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I have not been following the development of SystemD, and so may be
completely wrong, but from what little I've read, I get the impression
it was developed (and adopted) by people who came over from the MS-type
world and were new/unfamiliar to the UNIX traditions and there were
insufficient people to stand against it.

Mancini, Sabin (DFS) wrote:
> Thank you Mayer, and that is very interesting- I completely agree and do not want to see Linux distros begin to follow Bill G's philosophy.
>
> But why are they doing this ? ( getting away from the classic Unix principles in favor of the opposite ).
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hangout [mailto:hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com] On Behalf Of mayer ilovitz
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 9:33 AM
> To: NYLXS Discussions List
> Subject: Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try: Please explain what the issue is with SystemD. Mayer, I am using Mint 17.3, what is it using in contrast to system D ?
>
> ATTENTION: This email came from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails.
>
>
> I'm still at 17.1 and probably going to update to 17.3 (which I presume
> is still largely init-based) in the next few weeks pending a decision to
> change to a completely different distro.
>
> Others can better explain all the issues with SystemD. SystemD violates
> all the classic UNIX principles (programs should be (relatively) small,
> independent, & straightforward in function; use PLAIN TEXT log & control
> files for easy maintenqnce & diagnostics). SystemD follows the Microsoft
> philosophy of giant, interlocked monolithic systems that need other
> programs to even look at the logs (ex: event manager) or make
> configuration changes. In an earlier response today, Ruben pointed out
> just how easy it can be to lock up (& likely corrupt) a SystemD-based
> linux box.
>
> Mancini, Sabin (DFS) wrote:
>> Please explain what the issue is with SystemD. Mayer, I am using Mint 17.3, what is it using in contrast to system D ?
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hangout [mailto:hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com] On Behalf Of mayer ilovitz
>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 5:32 AM
>> To: NYLXS Discussions List
>> Subject: Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
>>
>> ATTENTION: This email came from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected emails.
>>
>>
>> So, the real question & discussion topic is what distros (or at least
>> versions of distros) have NOT gone over to the Dark Side of Init Systems
>> ? I've been running Mint for years (still on 17.1) and trying to
>> figure what to upgrade to as I've heard 18.x is now fully SystemD'd :-(
>>
>> Rick Moen wrote:
>>> Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com):
>>>
>>>> http://nixos.org/nixos/download.html#
>>>> Different init manager and functional programming design
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>> "NixOS is now using systemd by default....'
>>>
>>> https://nixos.org/wiki/NixOS:extend_NixOS
>>>
>>>
>>> Also in
>>> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/nixos/doc/manual/administration/service-mgmt.xml:
>>>
>>> Service Management:
>>>
>>> In NixOS, all system services are started and monitored using
>>> the systemd program. Systemd is the "init" process of the system
>>> (i.e. PID 1), the parent of all other processes.
>>>
>>> Nice use of unit testing, configuration management, and other DevOps
>>> methods, though.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> hangout mailing list
>>> hangout-at-nylxs.com
>>> http://www.nylxs.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> hangout mailing list
>> hangout-at-nylxs.com
>> http://www.nylxs.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> hangout mailing list
>> hangout-at-nylxs.com
>> http://www.nylxs.com/
> _______________________________________________
> hangout mailing list
> hangout-at-nylxs.com
> http://www.nylxs.com/
> _______________________________________________
> hangout mailing list
> hangout-at-nylxs.com
> http://www.nylxs.com/

_______________________________________________
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  78. 2016-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  79. 2016-12-17 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  80. 2016-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Movie of the Week! Hello BOB!!
  81. 2016-12-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] anyone want to see Star Wars tonight?
  82. 2016-12-18 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  83. 2016-12-16 From: "APhA's Pharmacy Today" <PTdaily-at-aphanet.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] December 16,
  84. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  85. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  86. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  87. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  88. 2016-12-18 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  89. 2016-12-18 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  90. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Look C++ is a functional programming language
  91. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  92. 2016-12-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  93. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  94. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  95. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  96. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  97. 2016-12-19 mayer ilovitz <pmamayeri-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  98. 2016-12-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  99. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  100. 2016-12-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] another offbeat distro
  101. 2016-12-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  102. 2016-12-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] systemd critique et al
  103. 2016-12-19 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  104. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  105. 2016-12-19 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try
  106. 2016-12-19 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #282 - The White Camels are roaming
  107. 2016-12-19 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try: Please explain what the
  108. 2016-12-19 mayer ilovitz <pmamayeri-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try: Please explain what the
  109. 2016-12-19 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the issues with SystemD: why are they doing
  110. 2016-12-19 mayer ilovitz <pmamayeri-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the issues with SystemD: why are they doing
  111. 2016-12-19 ISOC-NY announcements <announce-at-lists.isoc-ny.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [isoc-ny] JOB: Telecommunications Policy Specialist
  112. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  113. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  114. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the issues with SystemD: why are they doing
  115. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] NYLXS Textbook Section
  116. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] NYLXS Textbook Section
  117. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try: Please explain what the
  118. 2016-12-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] New Distros to try: Please explain what the
  119. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] NYLXS Textbook Section
  120. 2016-12-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Workshops -at- ACM/SPEC ICPE 2017 - Call for
  121. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] wow - just got an email from Ruth
  122. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  123. 2016-12-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  124. 2016-12-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  125. 2016-12-20 mayer ilovitz <pmamayeri-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  126. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  127. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  128. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Ocean Parkway Protest!!
  129. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The ever growing police state
  130. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Serious danger to state sovereignty and your right
  131. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] F'ing Mouse Pad
  132. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  133. 2016-12-20 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] BHI'17 Registration Now Open!
  134. 2016-12-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Serious danger to state sovereignty and your
  135. 2016-12-20 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  136. 2016-12-20 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  137. 2016-12-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  138. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Serious danger to state sovereignty and your
  139. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  140. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] The fascinating case of Bernie Goetz
  141. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  142. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The fascinating case of Bernie Goetz
  143. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  144. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] The fascinating case of Bernie Goetz
  145. 2016-12-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Serious danger to state sovereignty and your
  146. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Thank god he is dead
  147. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Brooklyn Principal Shot to Death While Looking for
  148. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Marla Hanson recalls her nightmare
  149. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Official crime numbers in Kings County
  150. 2016-12-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] I'm sure it's a coincidence, part n+1
  151. 2016-12-21 ruben <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] LIU Brooklyn Campus Safety
  152. 2016-12-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] LIU Brooklyn Campus Safety
  153. 2016-12-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] What California gets for Christmas
  154. 2016-12-21 From: "Amy at NTEN" <amy-at-nten.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] NTEN Connect: The Best NPTech Stories of 2016,
  155. 2016-12-21 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] 2017 ISBI Call for Abstracts- Submission Deadline
  156. 2016-12-21 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  157. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  158. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Marnchester by the Sea
  159. 2016-12-21 mayer ilovitz <pmamayeri-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  160. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  161. 2016-12-21 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] What California gets for Christmas
  162. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  163. 2016-12-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT
  164. 2016-12-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] the sorry state of this country and its bizarre
  165. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] What California gets for Christmas: Yeah but
  166. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] sorry state this country,
  167. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT | | Yeah,
  168. 2016-12-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] sorry state this country,
  169. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Shelter Cove- which one ? There are two- one in
  170. 2016-12-22 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Shelter Cove- which one ? There are two- one in
  171. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] And be aware you were an unexcused no-show
  172. 2016-12-22 Ruben Safir <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] And be aware you were an unexcused no-show
  173. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] And be aware you were an unexcused no-show
  174. 2016-12-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] And be aware you were an unexcused no-show
  175. 2016-12-22 From: "Mancini, Sabin (DFS)" <Sabin.Mancini-at-dfs.ny.gov> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] We were talking about how you could transport
  176. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] And be aware you were an unexcused no-show
  177. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Shelter Cove- which one ? There are two- one in
  178. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] This Mayor is an IDIOT | | Yeah,
  179. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] sorry state this country,
  180. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] What California gets for Christmas: Yeah but
  181. 2016-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Homeless have taken over 34th street
  182. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the sorry state of this country and its bizarre
  183. 2016-12-23 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] the sorry state of this country and its bizarre
  184. 2016-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] HOPL (History of Programming Languages)
  185. 2016-12-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Tiny Compiler in many languages at
  186. 2016-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Chag Simaach
  187. 2016-12-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] jobs
  188. 2016-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Sanders and Socialism
  189. 2016-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Free Speach
  190. 2016-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Google and C++
  191. 2016-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Conflicts of Interest
  192. 2016-12-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Syria wished you a Merry Christmas
  193. 2016-12-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Light even in the darkness
  194. 2016-12-25 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] Syria wished you a Merry Christmas
  195. 2016-12-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #283 - Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah
  196. 2016-12-26 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #283 - Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah
  197. 2016-12-27 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Israel band, Iran Good
  198. 2016-12-27 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Israel band, Iran Good
  199. 2016-12-27 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] International criminals, every jew
  200. 2016-12-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] she's gone
  201. 2016-12-27 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] International criminals, every jew
  202. 2016-12-28 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout-NYLXS] International criminals, every jew
  203. 2016-12-28 mrbrklyn <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] can't find the damn ball anywhere here
  204. 2016-12-28 From: "Pharmacy Times" <enews-at-pharmacytimes.com> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Xtampza(R) ER (oxycodone) Product Bulletin
  205. 2016-12-29 From: "Ruben.Safir" <ruben.safir-at-my.liu.edu> Subject: [Hangout-NYLXS] Police State gets one step closer

NYLXS are Do'ers and the first step of Doing is Joining! Join NYLXS and make a difference in your community today!