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DATE 2022-01-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2022-01-02
FROM Neil Gunton
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Embperl and threaded mpm?
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Sun Jul 10 20:11:28 2022
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To: Ruben Safir
Cc: "embperl-at-perl.apache.org"
References: <59500A1A.5040505-at-nilspace.com>

<59519E0F.8060807-at-nilspace.com>
<40faf6e6-67ec-b21d-ef0d-7a636863e84c-at-mrbrklyn.com>
<5951F95A.3070806-at-nilspace.com> <20220102141037.GA28619-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com>
From: Neil Gunton
In-Reply-To: <20220102141037.GA28619-at-www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Embperl and threaded mpm?
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On 1/2/22 06:10, Ruben Safir wrote:
> Is it a good idea to adopt this package and update it?
>
> It wil likely die otherwise

I think it's pretty much "dead" anyway, at least in terms of new people
and websites using it. But then so is Perl, and even mod_perl. Hell,
even Apache is seen as passe by some people now. I still use all those,
and Sendmail, so call me a dinosaur. They work, and I have all my
configs dialed in for those tools. And I have a huge codebase (well, 20
man year's worth of work on my part for my website). So I'm going to use
Embperl for as long as I can. But I couldn't imagine using it to develop
a website for clients at this point, in good conscience. So who's using
it? I have no idea. I don't think Gerald Richter has been all that
interested in developing it for a decade or more.

If someone wanted to take it on and keep it relevant, even develop it
and expand and document all the cool features properly (I have never
used "recipes" or whatever Gerald called them) then maybe it could have
a rennaissance. I don't know. I don't have time, I have enough on my
plate just developing my own stuff.

People like to work on new stuff. Even on established open source
projects, you see people doing total rewrites every so often, just (I
guess) because it's easier to work on new code than maintain old. It's
an old story. I'm going through this right now with Thunderbird - 91.x
seems to be a lot of new code, because stuff that used to just work, now
doesn't. That's the downside to rewrites - all those years of
accumulated coding wisdom, little tweaks, down the drain.

So I'd hope that if anyone does take on Embperl, they won't rewrite from
scratch. Perl 6 is another example. It basically killed Perl, because
everybody was eternally waiting for Perl 6, which made Perl 5 look
passe, and eventually everybody just stopped waiting and used PHP or
Ruby or Python or whatever. The Perl devs really screwed the pooch on
Perl 6, in my opinion as a peripheral observer and developer. I don't
really care how cool the language is. If it's not a smooth and seamless
transition from Perl 5 to Perl 6, then it's useless to me. I don't care
about cool language features, I just want to get stuff done, and not
break all the code I have accumulated over the last 20 years.

Embperl is still great. But increasingly I find I use real Perl subs
rather than the [$ sub $], due to the better handling of local
variables. Most of the big bugs I've had have been due to leaking
variables across different Embperl subs. So now I only try to use those
for very basic stuff. If it's at all complex, then I convert that code
to a Perl sub, inside [- -], not [$ sub $]. The feature that I really
like about Embperl is the object oriented directory structure, which
lets you redefine files and subs in sub folders. I may be wrong, but it
really works for me and I like it. That's the big thing I wouldn't want
to give up if I had to move away from Embperl, really - the folder-based
hierarchy of subroutine overriding. Maybe there's clever ways to get the
same effect by other means, I'm sure there are, but Embperl still "just
works", it's stable so I hope it continues to work for a long while yet.

I don't know if Gerald is still out there reading these emails, but if
he is - THANK YOU. You gave us an awesome tool, and I hope if I ever get
my business successful one way then I'll be able to repay you somehow.

Neil

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  1. 2022-01-01 From: "Greg Farough, FSF" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Help keep the end-of-year momentum going:
  2. 2022-01-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Taking the eye off the ball
  3. 2022-01-03 G?bor Szab? <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #545 - Happy, Healthy,
  4. 2022-01-04 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: This is How They Really Talk About Israel
  5. 2022-01-04 From: "Free Software Foundation" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Free Software Supporter Issue 165, January 2022
  6. 2022-01-06 IEEE Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society <noreply-at-embs.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Call for Papers - 9th IEEE RAS/EMBS International
  7. 2022-01-06 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  8. 2022-01-05 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  9. 2022-01-06 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  10. 2022-01-03 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  11. 2022-01-05 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  12. 2022-01-05 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  13. 2022-01-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  14. 2022-01-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  15. 2022-01-08 Alain Knaff via info-gnu <info-gnu-at-gnu.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU mtools 4.0.37 released
  16. 2022-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Aaron Swartz
  17. 2022-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Rutstein DMCA lawsuite
  18. 2022-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] More on the Rutstien DMCA copyright suite
  19. 2022-01-09 Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva-at-fsfla.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU Linux-libre 5.16-gnu
  20. 2022-01-10 G?bor Szab? <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #546 - Perl Books
  21. 2022-01-10 Alex <mysqlstudent-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] TLS ciphers
  22. 2022-01-10 Alex <mysqlstudent-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] TLS ciphers
  23. 2022-01-10 From: "Medscape News Alert" <Medscape_News_Alert-at-mail.medscape.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] FDA OKs New Adult Insomnia Med
  24. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] One Man, One Vote..
  25. 2022-01-11 From: "Shaina Taub" <shainataub-at-e.atlanticrecords.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] 'Songs of the Great Hill'
  26. 2022-01-12 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] Renaming openSUSE repositories for
  27. 2022-01-12 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] MyGNUHealth Flatpak
  28. 2022-01-11 Alessio <alciregi-at-posteo.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] MyGNUHealth Flatpak
  29. 2022-01-12 Axel Braun <axel.braun-at-gmx.de> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] Renaming openSUSE repositories for GNU
  30. 2022-01-12 Axel Braun <axel.braun-at-gmx.de> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] MyGNUHealth Flatpak
  31. 2022-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] what vaccines mean to business
  32. 2022-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Anti-Semetism in the coin business?
  33. 2022-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] You really need to see what can be done without a
  34. 2022-01-14 From: "Greg Farough, FSF" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Share your free software journey and help others
  35. 2022-01-15 Alessio <alciregi-at-posteo.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  36. 2022-01-15 From: "Medscape CME & Education" <Medscape-at-mail.medscape.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Help Improve The Lives of Those Living With HIV
  37. 2022-01-14 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  38. 2022-01-14 Alessio <alciregi-at-posteo.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  39. 2022-01-14 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] Renaming openSUSE repositories for
  40. 2022-01-14 Axel Braun <axel.braun-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] Renaming openSUSE repositories for
  41. 2022-01-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Faucci and his critics
  42. 2022-01-17 G?bor Szab? <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #547 - Learning a human language vs.
  43. 2022-01-17 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  44. 2022-01-17 Alessio <alciregi-at-posteo.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  45. 2022-01-17 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  46. 2022-01-17 Luis Falcon <falcon-at-gnuhealth.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  47. 2022-01-18 Alessio <alciregi-at-posteo.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Health] desktop and metainfo files
  48. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  49. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  50. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  51. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  52. 2022-01-18 Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar-at-fantomas.sk> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  53. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  54. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  55. 2022-01-18 Chris Green <cl-at-isbd.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding a second line to .forward,
  56. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  57. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  58. 2022-01-12 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  59. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding a second line to .forward,
  60. 2022-01-12 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  61. 2022-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  62. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  63. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  64. 2022-01-11 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  65. 2022-01-11 Phil Biggs <mb170712-at-pjb.cc> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Virtual users with postfix and dovecot
  66. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  67. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  68. 2022-01-18 Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar-at-fantomas.sk> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  69. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  70. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  71. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  72. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  73. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  74. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  75. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  76. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  77. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  78. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  79. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  80. 2022-01-11 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  81. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  82. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  83. 2022-01-18 Chris Green <cl-at-isbd.net> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding a second line to .forward,
  84. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  85. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  86. 2022-01-11 Phil Biggs <mb170712-at-pjb.cc> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Virtual users with postfix and dovecot
  87. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  88. 2022-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  89. 2022-01-18 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding a second line to .forward,
  90. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  91. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  92. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  93. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  94. 2022-01-06 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  95. 2022-01-11 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  96. 2022-01-06 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  97. 2022-01-05 raf <postfix-at-raf.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  98. 2022-01-05 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  99. 2022-01-05 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users-at-dukhovni.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  100. 2022-01-12 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  101. 2022-01-12 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  102. 2022-01-11 Bill Cole <postfixlists-070913-at-billmail.scconsult.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  103. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  104. 2022-01-12 Wietse Venema <wietse-at-porcupine.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  105. 2022-01-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  106. 2022-01-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  107. 2022-01-18 Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar-at-fantomas.sk> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  108. 2022-01-18 From: "Joe Acquisto-j4" <joea-at-j4computers.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] SASL questions
  109. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Adding Additional domains and outgoing email
  110. 2022-01-18 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: SASL questions
  111. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] (fwd) de Blasio ruined New York City
  112. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Check this out. It doesn
  113. 2022-01-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Chofitz Chaim Auction needs some help...
  114. 2022-01-18 From: "Free Software Foundation" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] FSF expands process for associate members to
  115. 2022-01-19 Rick Moen <rick-at-linuxmafia.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Check this out. It doesn
  116. 2022-01-20 aviva <aviva-at-gmx.us> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Check this out. It doesn
  117. 2022-01-20 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Check this out. It doesn
  118. 2022-01-19 From: "Free Software Foundation" <info-at-fsf.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] New year,
  119. 2022-01-24 G?bor Szab? <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #548 - Perl Books Collection
  120. 2022-01-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] The suppresion of desenting scientific opinions
  121. 2022-01-26 From: "Pat Schloss" <pschloss-at-umich.edu> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [mothur] mothur v.1.47.0 release
  122. 2022-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] security and Free Software in the WSJ - eh
  123. 2022-01-29 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] New Zealand Lockdown
  124. 2022-01-30 Steve Hay <stevehay-at-apache.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [ANNOUNCE] mod_perl-2.0.12
  125. 2022-01-02 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Embperl and threaded mpm?
  126. 2022-01-02 Neil Gunton <neil-at-nilspace.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Embperl and threaded mpm?
  127. 2022-01-02 Jim Tappe <jtappe-at-gmail.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Embperl and threaded mpm?

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