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DATE 2009-02-01

HANGOUT

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Key: Value:

Key: Value:

MESSAGE
DATE 2009-02-27
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] OLPC


"Using Windows in XOs has many implications. ...it means you are forcing a company's products on all children....I don't understand how someone can impose the monopoly of using a vendor-specific software on all kids. "


Regardless what you might have read in the popular press/blogs, what OLPC and MS agreed on is having an option of a 'dual-boot' XOs - ie. increasing the customers' choice rather than the other way around (and, as a result, having XO in places where only MS-based PCs would have been purchased otherwise...) Surely you're not advocating 'banning' XP on XO ? Not only you can't stop MS working on porting XP to XO from a technical point of view but, more importantly, is also opposite to what OLPC stands for: not just open-source but also open-platform. I guess Ivan Krstić put it the best [1]:

" To claim we should prohibit XO customers from running XP in the interest of freedom is to claim everyone should be free to make a choice — as long as it’s a choice we agree with."

[1] Ivan Krstić -The paradox of choice
( http://radian.org/notebook/page/8 )
delphi | April 28, 2008 8:39 AM | Reply | Vote up Vote down (Score: 0)

I think calling for fork is too early. Sugar will stay GPL whatever Microsoft will do or plans to do. And unless Bill has mircle coder boy, XP has very long road to be delivered with new XO.

So maybe let's not call the shots, let's work on Sugar, and try to improve XO.
Peteris Krisjanis | April 28, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Vote up Vote down (Score: 0)

In response to many of the questions regarding the changes in the
OLPC project, and specifically the decision to base the project at
this juncture to a Microsoft Operating System, proponents of this
change have come out swinging against Free Software developers who
have worked for the current Free Interface, code named Sugar. A
large segment of the critique of the against Free Software developers
like Bender is that they have put their "Open Source" agenda above the
welfare of the project. Others claim that the "Open Source" advocates
should be pleased with the what has already been done and that the
project as it stands can either be relaunched or has already met
goals.

The problem, though, is that in many ways, the marketing and financial
positioning of the OLPC program is harder to develop then the hardware
and software. And the goals that have been met are small in light of
the original mission of the OLPC project.

An operating system is more than a commodity. It becomes the looking
glass that develops how the user thinks and it literally shapes
the mind of it's users. A system which is at it's core designed to
disenfranchise users from the learning experience, especially in how
the user views the software itself through learned expectations, and
forces information access through monopolistic channels and filters,
undermines the development of critical thinking skills. In geek terms,
the operating system reprograms the end user. The Microsoft operating
system is designed to do so from the ground up. It is in fact the only
intended use of the Microsoft Windows Operating System franchise.

The interaction between technology on human and societal development
dates to the beginning of civilization, if not even before that.
One interesting scholarly article on the topic which is archived at
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources/technology_changes_how_we_think.txt
by Robin Wilson explores how the Gutenberg printing printing press causes
an explosion of mathematical usage and development, and how a large part
of that was developed by the standardization of mathematical symbols
for universal communication and expression.

" Johann Gutenberg’s invention of the printing press (around 1440)
revolutionised mathematics, enabling classic mathematical works to be
widely available for the first time. Previously, scholarly works, such
as the classical texts of Euclid, Archimedes and Apollonius had been
available only in manuscript form, but the printed versions made these
works much more widely available.

At first the new books were printed in Latin or Greek for the scholar,
and many scholarly editions appeared. The earliest printed version
of Euclid's Elements, published in Venice in 1482, and there is an
attractive 1492 edition of Ptolemy's Almagest. Apollonius's Conics
appeared in 1537, and seven years later the works of Archimedes were
published in both Latin and Greek, and there was a celebrated edition
of Diophantus's Arithmetic in 1621, reissued in 1670, with the Greek
text, a Latin translation by Bachet, and comments by Fermat, including
his famous marginal comment on the 'last theorem'. ....

The invention of printing also led to the gradual standardisation of
mathematical notation. In particular, the arithmetical symbols + and -“
first appeared in a 1489 arithmetic text by Johann Widmann. Surprisingly,
the symbols x and (division sign) were not in general use until the seventeenth
century “ we'll see how — developed shortly; the division sign·
was introduced by John Pell.

Needless to say, the quality of the mathematical printing in those days
was very variable. Here we see two version of Pascal's arithmetical
triangle from the same year, 1545: Stifel's publisher was having a
good day, while Scheubelius was less fortunate."

The most important point Wilson makes as relating to the OLPC project
is in these paragraphs:

"Record was such a fine lecturer that his audience regularly applauded
his lectures. We don't know what he looked like. For a long time, there
was only one known picture of him, but recently severe doubts have been
raised as to its authenticity. One might well ask: ‘Is this a Record?'

Record's books were written in English, and ran to many editions. The
ground of artes of 1543 was an arithmetic book explaining the various
rules so simply that "everie child can do it". As with all his books,
it was written in the form of a Socratic dialogue between a scholar and
his master."

Prior to this era of copyright and DRM encumbered communications,
the printing press caused a prodigious discovery of the potential
of the human intellect and from it's most early uses western masters
used it to communicate with the masses, specifically targeting children
for education. The art of printing explodedr. It's teaching as a trade,
science and technology every bit as vital to the democratization and
economic development that the West would experience as any other cultural
influence. From that very day in around 1440 when the press was invented
it became the essential tool of Western advancement, more important that
gunpowder or navigational tools.

In the short 600 years since technology has revolutionized communications,
through the printing era, into the wireless and wired analog era, through the
broadcast media era and on until to today's digital media
humanity has evolved directly in response to the use, development,
deployment and education of state of the art communications media,
while diverse (classically defined) liberal education became the cornerstone
of worldwide civilization as it has spread from the West to every corner
of the globe.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in her ground breaking book, "Infidel", repeatedly
describes how her interaction with libraries and booksi influenced her
thinking and growth. Why surrounded by a world of Islamic Brotherhood
lectures and learnings with the repeated mantra of "TOTAL OBEDIENCE" repeated
by local figures in her life such as Boqol Sawm and Sister Aziza, Hirsi-Ali
found comfort in cheap romantic novels. This unlikely wellspring of Western
learning deeply impressed upon her what possiblities she could inspire towards.
She writes, " But the allure of romance called to us from the pages
of books. In school we read good books, Charlotte Bronte, Jane Austen,
and Daphne du Maurier; out of school Halwaa's sisters kept us supplied
with cheap Harlequins. These were trashy soap opera-like novels, but
they were exciting — sexually exciting."

Hirsi-Ali has the advantage of literacy and the support of a free press.
The purpose of the OLPC project is also literacy. Not just the literacy
of the pen, and the literacy of mathematics, politics and arts,
but computer literacy, the new medium which will be required for the
development of children worldwide to fully share in our emerging enriched
worldwide culture. There are too many stumbling blocks even for Westerner
to overcome as there is. The quoted material above was far too arduous
from me gather into this message. The text, instead of being able to be be
quickly cut and pasted into this window had to be typed by hand because online
resources like Google-Books have been legally prevented from making it
available as text. It was only because of my 20 years of steep education
in this topic, and my ability to reverse engineer the protections that have
been enforced in this media that I was able even locate the appropriate material to
present on this point to an interested public.

The Microsoft Operating system is designed to restrict digital
access to information in order to optimize a monopolistic,
non-competitive agenda, the most essential restriction being the discovery
of the basic tools and carnal knowledge of the computer systems internals, both
hardware and softwar. The modern printing press, itself has been shrouded in secrecy.
This directly conflicts with the core OLPC charter and goal. While that can be
ridiculed as an "Open Source" agenda, an irrational hangup, I'd argue based on the
historical evidence that the accusatory tone of such statements make are fundamentally
flawed and very much more in line with the kind of rationality which one might
expect from a despot philosophy such as which might come from controlling
Communist Party in today's Red China.

The agenda, design and functionality of the Sugar interface, and it's
origins in GNU software and and the technologic secifications Linux kernels,
not to exclude arguments about the merits of it's politics is specious and spurious.
Oxymoronic as that may sound, it is not the devotion to "Open Source"
which makes the move from Sugar to Microsoft Software untenable to
the goals of the One Laptop Per Child program. It is the change from a
classically Liberal based education program, a cornerstone and application
of Western and world progress, to a regressive monopolistic platform which inhibits
by design those Western values most critical to transmit and the knowledge that
humanity has aquired so that it can be adapted to other native cultures and thereby help assure the survival all of mankind as a free, informed and tolerant civilization.

What, may I ask, is it intended that we teach these children in the
third world with a billion laptops? That is the only relevant question.
Sugar is designed from the ground up to answer this question. Obviously
the Microsoft product have no such agenda.


  1. 2009-02-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  2. 2009-02-01 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  3. 2009-02-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  4. 2009-02-01 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  5. 2009-02-01 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  6. 2009-02-01 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  7. 2009-02-03 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  8. 2009-02-04 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  9. 2009-02-04 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  10. 2009-02-05 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
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  13. 2009-02-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MYSQL falling apart
  14. 2009-02-08 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ubuntu wifi
  15. 2009-02-09 From: "Tameek" <tameek-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ubuntu wifi
  16. 2009-02-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Outliner Project
  17. 2009-02-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ubuntu wifi
  18. 2009-02-09 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ubuntu wifi
  19. 2009-02-09 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] ubuntu wifi
  20. 2009-02-09 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  21. 2009-02-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  22. 2009-02-09 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  23. 2009-02-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  24. 2009-02-09 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  25. 2009-02-09 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  26. 2009-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [nyc-at-workatjelly.com: Jelly in Brooklyn this Friday 2/13]
  27. 2009-02-11 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: Transit cuts: seeing is believing
  28. 2009-02-11 einker <eminker-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  29. 2009-02-11 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] best line I've read
  30. 2009-02-11 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] A Rare Time To Come...
  31. 2009-02-12 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet connection
  32. 2009-02-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet connection
  33. 2009-02-15 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Debian
  34. 2009-02-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Debian
  35. 2009-02-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] virus security is finally getting notice
  36. 2009-02-15 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Debian
  37. 2009-02-15 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] virus security is finally getting notice
  38. 2009-02-15 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Debian
  39. 2009-02-15 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] virus security is finally getting notice
  40. 2009-02-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] virus security is finally getting notice
  41. 2009-02-15 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] virus security is finally getting notice
  42. 2009-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] DRM not quite dead yet
  43. 2009-02-16 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars continue
  44. 2009-02-16 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars continue
  45. 2009-02-16 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  46. 2009-02-16 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  47. 2009-02-16 swd <sderrick-at-optonline.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  48. 2009-02-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HP Linux support
  49. 2009-02-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Copyright Wars continue
  50. 2009-02-17 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HP Linux support
  51. 2009-02-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-announce] TOMORROW! NYLUG Feb 18 -at- 6:30 PM Brian Gupta
  52. 2009-02-18 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sunny Dubey's Nov 2008 Linux DJ presentation now available to stream/download
  53. 2009-02-18 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sunny Dubey's Nov 2008 Linux DJ presentation
  54. 2009-02-19 Paul Robert Marino <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HP Linux support
  55. 2009-02-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Jobs
  56. 2009-02-19 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sunny Dubey's Nov 2008 Linux DJ presentation
  57. 2009-02-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Sunny Dubey's Nov 2008 Linux DJ presentation
  58. 2009-02-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Projects
  59. 2009-02-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] internet connection
  60. 2009-02-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  61. 2009-02-20 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] HP Linux support
  62. 2009-02-20 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  63. 2009-02-21 email <redpill-at-rcn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new email
  64. 2009-02-21 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new email
  65. 2009-02-21 From: "Beau Gould" <bg-at-capitalmarketsp.com> RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new email
  66. 2009-02-21 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: [nylug-announce] Russ Nelson's OpenStreetmap mapping party
  67. 2009-02-22 email <redpill-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new email
  68. 2009-02-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  69. 2009-02-23 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  70. 2009-02-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  71. 2009-02-23 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] weird project spec
  72. 2009-02-23 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] new email
  73. 2009-02-24 redpill <redpill-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  74. 2009-02-24 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  75. 2009-02-24 Michael L Richardson <mlr52-at-mycouponmagic.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Mandriva Linux Powerpack 2009 available at 50% discount !]
  76. 2009-02-24 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Jelly in Brooklyn this Friday 2/27]
  77. 2009-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Iraqi Views on US Politics
  78. 2009-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  79. 2009-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  80. 2009-02-25 From: "Tameek" <tameek-at-gmail.com> R: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  81. 2009-02-25 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Re: [nylug-talk] Installfest Sunday
  82. 2009-02-25 redpill <redpill-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  83. 2009-02-25 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  84. 2009-02-25 mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com RE: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  85. 2009-02-25 redpill <redpill-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  86. 2009-02-25 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  87. 2009-02-25 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] IRC as a way to hold meetings
  88. 2009-02-25 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  89. 2009-02-26 Kevin Mark <kevin.mark-at-verizon.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  90. 2009-02-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  91. 2009-02-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: R: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  92. 2009-02-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] NYLXS Finances
  93. 2009-02-26 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  94. 2009-02-26 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  95. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS Verses GNU is heating up
  96. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] 24 percent increase in GNU Sales not satisfying Novell in the recession
  97. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] MS/GNU Legal Battle prelude part II
  98. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  99. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  100. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] is this mayor NUTS?
  101. 2009-02-27 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] is this mayor NUTS?
  102. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] is this mayor NUTS?
  103. 2009-02-27 mlr52-at-michaellrichardson.com Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  104. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] OLPC
  105. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: [linux-elitists] FAT is the new GIF?]
  106. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: [linux-elitists] FAT is the new GIF?]
  107. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: [linux-elitists] FAT is the new GIF?]
  108. 2009-02-27 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Re: [linux-elitists] FAT is the new GIF?]
  109. 2009-02-27 From: "Paul Robert Marino" <prmarino1-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  110. 2009-02-27 Elfen Magix <elfen_magix-at-yahoo.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] is this mayor NUTS?
  111. 2009-02-27 redpill <redpill-at-rcn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  112. 2009-02-27 Ron Guerin <ron-at-vnetworx.net> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  113. 2009-02-27 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  114. 2009-02-27 Amy Coleman <acoleman-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest and hacking date
  115. 2009-02-28 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] [Fwd: Update Apache2.0 configuration]
  116. 2009-02-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] Installfest Sunday
  117. 2009-02-28 Ronny Abraham <ronny.coder-at-gmail.com> Re: [NYLXS - HANGOUT] is this mayor NUTS?

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