MESSAGE
| DATE | 2020-01-06 |
| FROM | Ruben Safir
|
| SUBJECT | Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
|
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Mon Jan 6 07:24:18 2020
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The GNU revolt continues
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Subject: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF relationship
References: <20191227093926.GB62099-at-librem>
<877e24uahs.fsf-at-pobox.com>
From: Dora Scilipoti
To: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org
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On 01/06/2020 05:47 AM, Andy Wingo wrote:
> Please refrain from reposting the same arguments over and over again
> on this list, you've made them before already.
Please refrain from reposting false premises over and over again on this
list. You and your friends have done it many times already.
> Please also stop pretending that you speak on the behalf of the GNU
> project and GNU maintainers.
One could say the same thing to you.
--
Dora Scilipoti
GNU Education Team
gnu.org/education
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From: Andy Wingo
To: ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
Subject: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF relationship
In-Reply-To: (Alfred M. Szmidt's message
of "Fri, 27 Dec 2019 06:22:31 -0500")
References: <20191227093926.GB62099-at-librem>
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Please refrain from reposting the same arguments over and over again
on this list, you've made them before already.
Please also stop pretending that you speak on the behalf of the GNU
project and GNU maintainers.
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Subject: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
To: Brett Gilio
References:
<3a1d5514-53ac-45fd-80c0-b20d65aaa7ea-at-localhost>
From: Dora Scilipoti
Message-ID:
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 05:43:46 -0500
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Brett Gilio wrote:
> Alfred, if you really feel there is no substance at hand here, why
> not just leave the discussion?
Alfred is trying to correct the misinformation that is being spread here
as if it were unquestionable fact. This is an important thing to do so
one must hope he will not be driven away.
--
Dora Scilipoti
GNU Education Team
gnu.org/education
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From: Brandon Invergo
To: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org
Subject: Re: A summary of some open discussions
In-reply-to: <20191219233933.GJ3785-at-librem>
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 10:16:13 +0000
Message-ID: <87v9ponb4i.fsf-at-gnu.org>
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Mark Wielaard writes:
>> There is no such thing as a FSF steward, GNU maintainers are appointed
>> by RMS/GAC. The FSF has no say in the topic. You've keept
>> misrepresenting this over and over again.
>
> This is just a legal technicallity. The FSF has oversight
> responsibility over the GNU project. That means that the FSF needs to
> determine that GNU maintainers operate in a manner consistent with
> FSF's exempt purposes, have the needed expertise and that their
> activities can be monitored by the FSF board. So GNU Maintainers and
> Steering committees are technically appointed by the FSF (previously
> RMS when he was FSF president and board member) as stewards of GNU
> packages. Basically GNU maintainers serve at the pleasure of the FSF.
This is absolutely false.
As a member of the package evaluation team and as an Assistant
GNUissance (maintainers-at-gnu.org), I have personally been involved in
many appointments of new maintainers at every step of the process, from
first contact with GNU through to post-appointment bureaucracy and
occasional check-ins. I also have the authority to appoint new
maintainers of existing packages myself (only Richard can appoint
maintainers of new packages). In fact, I personally appointed some new
co-maintainers of Guix back in September, two weeks *after* Richard
resigned as president of the FSF, which Ludovic can confirm.
I can categorically say that the FSF is not involved whatsoever in the
appointment of new maintainers.
Please do not spread misinformation about the GNU project.
--
-brandon
ps - To correct Alfred: the GAC is also not involved in the appointment
of maintainers (unless Richard were to ask them for advice in specific
cases).
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Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 07:40:58 +0100
From: Jean Louis
To: DJ Delorie
Subject: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
Message-ID: <20200105064058.GK4632-at-protected.rcdrun.com>
References: <20200104181109.GM4632-at-protected.rcdrun.com>
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* DJ Delorie [2020-01-04 21:03]:
> Jean Louis writes:
> > Why should any policy of GNU be changed when they have been
> > functioning well for decades?
>
> This argument was used when GPLv2 was introduced, and again with GPLv3.
> Things change, we must adapt. "The old way is good enough" is not a
> good long-term policy.
Things always change and improve over time, for as long as good people
are running those things, that is true.
The subject was not the improvement over time, subject was the current
change of policies or as you said "amend policies", as you would need
to have actual reason to amend anything, and in case of any amendments
and proposals, one should propose it to RMS, and if there is rejection
or lack of acceptance, one shall respectfully take it back.
Jean
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From: DJ Delorie
To: Jean Louis
Subject: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <20200104181109.GM4632-at-protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean
Louis on Sat, 4 Jan 2020 19:11:09 +0100)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2020 15:02:35 -0500
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Jean Louis writes:
> Why should any policy of GNU be changed when they have been
> functioning well for decades?
This argument was used when GPLv2 was introduced, and again with GPLv3.
Things change, we must adapt. "The old way is good enough" is not a
good long-term policy.
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Subject: Re: posts by non-members
From: Brandon Invergo
To: Mark Wielaard
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2020 15:14:39 +0000
In-Reply-To: <20200103125354.GA55546-at-wildebeest.org>
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On Fri, 2020-01-03 at 13:53 +0100, Mark Wielaard wrote:
>
> In general it is somewhat inconvenient if you can only post to the
> list from the address with which you are subscribed.
In practice, with only one or two exceptions from what I have seen so far, this
would only affect people whose messages tend to be rejected for content anyway.
If anyone is particularly inconvenienced by this change and they genuinely
intend to contribute to the discussion, they are welcome to get in touch. I can
either make a (mental) exception or we can find an alternative solution for
them. For example, you can change your account settings in Mailman not to send
messages to your "sending only" account.
If things cool down, we can be more lenient again in the future.
-brandon
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_______________________________________________
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