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DATE 2020-01-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2020-01-08
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
From hangout-bounces-at-nylxs.com Wed Jan 8 02:48:21 2020
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Wed, 8 Jan 2020 02:48:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Ruben Safir
To: Andreas Enge , Hangout
References:
<87tv5xputr.fsf-at-gnu.org> <20191220003144.GK3785-at-librem>
<87bls3s0c9.fsf-at-gnu.org>
<32feb3ac718f08d619abc0d609dda400e05c9e69.camel-at-klomp.org>
<87o8vzj85m.fsf-at-gnu.org> <20191227222114.GG62099-at-librem>
<87blrsbj4f.fsf-at-gnu.org> <20200102124213.GC9566-at-wildebeest.org>
<20200104090006.GA1291-at-jurong>
Message-ID: <2cd87b8c-7636-8827-b097-70cbfe8d5744-at-panix.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 02:46:10 -0500
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Cc: Mark Wielaard
Subject: Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
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* Andreas Enge [2020-01-04 10:01]:
> Hello Mark,
> =

> On Thu, Jan 02, 2020 at 01:42:13PM +0100, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> > > Mark Wielaard skribis:
> > > > Yes, I believe we are nitpicking at this point. And we do seem to
> > > > agree. But if we are nitpicking anyway, then I would keep it short =
and
> > > > to the point. Shorter is better:
> > > >
> > > > The GNU Project adopts policies that encourage and enable develop=
ers
> > > > to actively defend user freedom. These policies include using
> > > > /copyleft licenses/, designed to ensure that users=E2=80=99 freed=
oms cannot
> > > > be stripped off, when appropriate.
> =

> this looks very good to me now! The paragraph posed problems since we tri=
ed
> to define a consistent policy, and our current practice is somewhat ad-ho=
c,
> with a few exceptions when there are good reasons. I think your text capt=
ures
> the spirit better, and allows for concrete policies to potentially be def=
ined
> elsewhere.

That GNU project does not need "social contract" has already been
discussed and is off-topic in my opinion, it has not been adopted by
RMS, and there is nothing you can do about it. Your attempts to take
over GNU project are futile. So I don't see why you spend so much
energy, I don't believe that your motivation has good intentions, I am
sorry.

In regards to any kind of policy changings or enforcing, you cannot
impose new policies that are contradictory to previous policies, that
does not work in any organization.

Your "social contract" as attempt of hostile take over of the GNU
project in itself is very poor, it is not eloquent, authors did not
take care of definitions and writing, it is too general, not specific,
it is creating mess, not order.

Example is that you wish to impose GNU GPL licenses only for free
software, while GNU project acknowledges other free software licenses
and may recommend them for certain type of works, please see:
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses

> > Thanks. Attached is an updated version and a diff with this change and
> > a few other small nitpicks mainly aimed at making the text more
> > concise.
> =

> Great, this all looks good to me.

Imagination is free and does not require any licenses.

The fact is that "social contract" is not necessary and not welcome in
GNU, as it is successful project in itself that caused thousands of
other projects to come into existence for reasons that it did not have
any coercion over individuals like your "social contract" imposes. It
is for reason that GNU project allowed individuals to contribute in
the way and manner how those individuals decided to be, and GNU
project never discriminated by any reason, even if those maintainers
or programmers have been programming proprietary software in their
free time, or have been supporting "open source" branding of software
that has the agenda to promote corporations and not freedom. So it
does not matter in GNU project who is who, everybody is welcome to
contribute.

Lack of a "social contract" is the feature of GNU project.

Jean


-- =

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
_______________________________________________
Hangout mailing list
Hangout-at-nylxs.com
http://lists.mrbrklyn.com/mailman/listinfo/hangout

  1. 2020-01-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Proposals for the new GNU/FSF relationship
  2. 2020-01-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] AI revolution
  3. 2020-01-05 Shorefront News <donotreply-at-wordpress.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?b?W05ldyBwb3N0XSBHYXJnaXVsb+KAmXMgUGFy?=
  4. 2020-01-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  5. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] embperl bug
  6. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: undefined value in Emperl/Util.pm
  7. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Apache 2.4?
  8. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  9. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  10. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  11. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  12. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  13. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  14. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  15. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  16. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  17. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  18. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  19. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  20. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  21. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  22. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  23. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  24. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  25. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  26. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  27. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  28. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  29. 2020-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the WEEK! - Starring OJ Simpson
  30. 2020-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Facial Recongition in NYC Traffic
  31. 2020-01-10 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] THis is the other WWI film
  32. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  33. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  34. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  35. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  36. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  37. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  38. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] built to last
  39. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  40. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  41. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  42. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  43. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  44. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Slowly the threat is coming into view
  45. 2020-01-12 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #442 - Fellowship of the Perl
  46. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  47. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  48. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  49. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  50. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  51. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Moderation
  52. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suspending FSF contributor agreements with
  53. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Moderation
  54. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  55. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  56. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  57. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  58. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  59. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  60. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  61. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  62. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  63. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  64. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
  65. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  66. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
  67. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MAriaDB conference in NYC
  68. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suspending FSF contributor agreements with
  69. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  70. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  71. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  72. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  73. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  74. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
  75. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  76. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  77. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  78. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  79. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  80. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  81. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  82. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  83. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  84. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  85. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  86. 2020-01-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] the charge against Parnes and Fruman
  87. 2020-01-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  88. 2020-01-20 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #443 - New Book: Mojolicious Web
  89. 2020-01-21 Rich Bowen <rbowen-at-apache.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [users-at-httpd] Call for presentations for
  90. 2020-01-20 Alumni Association <jesse-at-gohiretalent.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Reminder: Special Invitation: HireNYC 2020 - Hire
  91. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  92. 2020-01-22 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <mat-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MAT Application Deadline Extended
  93. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  94. 2020-01-22 From: "Donald Robertson, III, DBD" <info-at-defectivebydesign.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It is time to end the DMCA anti-circumvention
  95. 2020-01-22 Ben Creisler <bcreisler-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [dinosaur] Pan-Chelidae origin + amorphous carbon
  96. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  97. 2020-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  98. 2020-01-23 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Owners, the time is now | NCPA's qAM | Jan. 23,
  99. 2020-01-25 From: "Rijksmuseum" <nieuwsbrief-at-news.rijksmuseum.nl> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Rijksstudio Award 2020 | International design
  100. 2020-01-27 Olivier Hainque <hainque-at-adacore.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU Tools Cauldron 2020
  101. 2020-01-28 From: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos-at-systemhalted.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  102. 2020-01-28 ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  103. 2020-01-28 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  104. 2020-01-28 From: "Andreas R." <avr-at-softwarelibre.nl> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  105. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  106. 2020-01-28 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  107. 2020-01-28 DJ Delorie <dj-at-delorie.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  108. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  109. 2020-01-28 ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  110. 2020-01-28 From: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos-at-systemhalted.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  111. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  112. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  113. 2020-01-29 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  114. 2020-01-30 IEEE Spectrum <ieee-spectrum-at-deliver.ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Tech Alert
  115. 2020-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  116. 2020-01-30 baruchd <baruchd-at-optonline.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  117. 2020-01-30 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It's time for some personal advocacy | NCPA's qAM
  118. 2020-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  119. 2020-01-28 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo-at-gnu.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  120. 2020-01-29 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo-at-gnu.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  121. 2020-01-22 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It's your chance to speak truth to power | NCPA's

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