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DATE 2020-01-01

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MESSAGE
DATE 2020-01-15
FROM Ruben Safir
SUBJECT Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions



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Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:32:46 +0100
From: Andreas R.
To: gnu-misc-discuss-at-gnu.org
Subject: Re: A summary of some open discussions
Message-ID: <20200115103246.noon2fyclow4bar3-at-softwarelibre.nl>
References:
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On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 12:56:16AM +0100, Mark Wielaard wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 07, 2020 at 04:24:44AM -0500, Dora Scilipoti wrote:
> > > Since Brandon was delegated by the FSF president to
> > > appoint new (co-)maintainers [...]
> >
> > Correction: Brandon Invergo was delegated by Richard Stallman wearing
> > his Chief GNUisance hat, not as president of the FSF.
>
> We cannot really know because he used to wear both hats and depending
> on who you ask they'll tell you he made decissions as either Chief
> GNUisance or as FSF President. If you say it was as Chief GNUisance
> then it is a good question where that authority came from.

As Chief GNUisance this should be quite obvious: because he started the
project.

The unclear option would have been if his authority had been derived
from being
the president of the FSF, which is where the situation has changed.

> And whether
> we still need a position like Chief GNUisance going forward.

That doesn't logically follow and is basically a version of Cato's
famous "Furthermore, I consider that X must be destroyed" [1] aimed at
GNUisance's position.

> Authority
> in a volunteer organisation is always tricky. Which makes these
> governance discussions so difficult.

But is it really a governance discussion? Every line of inquiry into
changing
governance always seems to aim at an imminent removal of the chief
GNUisance and questions
and objections against this seem to be mostly ignored.

If if recall correctly, even some signees of the GUIX Joint Statement have
stated that their support wasn't about ousting rms, but simply
expressing support
for an honest discussion of a potential post-rms era.

Maybe it's time for those who desire change to post a clear set of goals and
a roadmap on how to establish those goals so this governance discussion can
continue in good faith.

Andreas R.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est

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  1. 2020-01-02 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Proposals for the new GNU/FSF relationship
  2. 2020-01-05 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] AI revolution
  3. 2020-01-05 Shorefront News <donotreply-at-wordpress.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] =?utf-8?b?W05ldyBwb3N0XSBHYXJnaXVsb+KAmXMgUGFy?=
  4. 2020-01-06 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  5. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] embperl bug
  6. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: undefined value in Emperl/Util.pm
  7. 2020-01-07 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Apache 2.4?
  8. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  9. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  10. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  11. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  12. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  13. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  14. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  15. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  16. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  17. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  18. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  19. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Proposals for the new GNU/FSF
  20. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  21. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  22. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  23. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  24. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  25. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  26. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  27. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  28. 2020-01-08 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  29. 2020-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the WEEK! - Starring OJ Simpson
  30. 2020-01-09 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Facial Recongition in NYC Traffic
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  32. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  33. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  34. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  35. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  36. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  37. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  38. 2020-01-12 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] built to last
  39. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  40. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  41. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  42. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  43. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
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  46. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  47. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  48. 2020-01-13 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  49. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  50. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  51. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Moderation
  52. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suspending FSF contributor agreements with
  53. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Moderation
  54. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  55. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  56. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  57. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  58. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU - Principles and Guidelines
  59. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  60. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  61. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  62. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS]
  63. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  64. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
  65. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  66. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
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  68. 2020-01-14 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] suspending FSF contributor agreements with
  69. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: suspending FSF contributor agreements
  70. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  71. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  72. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  73. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  74. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: Moderation
  75. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  76. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  77. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  78. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  79. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  80. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  81. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  82. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  83. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss
  84. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  85. 2020-01-15 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  86. 2020-01-17 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] the charge against Parnes and Fruman
  87. 2020-01-19 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Movie of the Week
  88. 2020-01-20 Gabor Szabo <gabor-at-szabgab.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [Perlweekly] #443 - New Book: Mojolicious Web
  89. 2020-01-21 Rich Bowen <rbowen-at-apache.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [users-at-httpd] Call for presentations for
  90. 2020-01-20 Alumni Association <jesse-at-gohiretalent.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Reminder: Special Invitation: HireNYC 2020 - Hire
  91. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  92. 2020-01-22 From: "American Museum of Natural History" <mat-at-amnh.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] MAT Application Deadline Extended
  93. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Request to mailing list gnu-misc-discuss rejected
  94. 2020-01-22 From: "Donald Robertson, III, DBD" <info-at-defectivebydesign.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It is time to end the DMCA anti-circumvention
  95. 2020-01-22 Ben Creisler <bcreisler-at-gmail.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] [dinosaur] Pan-Chelidae origin + amorphous carbon
  96. 2020-01-22 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Fwd: Re: A summary of some open discussions
  97. 2020-01-23 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] A summary of some open discussions
  98. 2020-01-23 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Owners, the time is now | NCPA's qAM | Jan. 23,
  99. 2020-01-25 From: "Rijksmuseum" <nieuwsbrief-at-news.rijksmuseum.nl> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Rijksstudio Award 2020 | International design
  100. 2020-01-27 Olivier Hainque <hainque-at-adacore.com> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] GNU Tools Cauldron 2020
  101. 2020-01-28 From: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos-at-systemhalted.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  102. 2020-01-28 ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  103. 2020-01-28 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  104. 2020-01-28 From: "Andreas R." <avr-at-softwarelibre.nl> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  105. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  106. 2020-01-28 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  107. 2020-01-28 DJ Delorie <dj-at-delorie.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  108. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  109. 2020-01-28 ams-at-gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  110. 2020-01-28 From: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos-at-systemhalted.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  111. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  112. 2020-01-28 Ruben Safir <mrbrklyn-at-panix.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  113. 2020-01-29 Jean Louis <bugs-at-gnu.support> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  114. 2020-01-30 IEEE Spectrum <ieee-spectrum-at-deliver.ieee.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] Tech Alert
  115. 2020-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  116. 2020-01-30 baruchd <baruchd-at-optonline.net> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  117. 2020-01-30 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It's time for some personal advocacy | NCPA's qAM
  118. 2020-01-30 Ruben Safir <ruben-at-mrbrklyn.com> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] You might find this to be of interest
  119. 2020-01-28 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo-at-gnu.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  120. 2020-01-29 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo-at-gnu.org> Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] Feedback on the GNU Social contract and new
  121. 2020-01-22 NCPA eCommunications <ncpa.ecommunications-at-ncpanet.org> Subject: [Hangout - NYLXS] It's your chance to speak truth to power | NCPA's

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